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wtg, mark!!! seriously, it sounds like you did great. it sounds like you handled things very well and feel better for it, so all good, right?

trying's post is excellent, exactly what I would say if she does talk to you.

I think you fil's follow up e-mail was good, personally, because I think going to a C can be a very good thing for both of you, if only to help out with the kid stuff.

I discovered the EA and confronted her. She denied anything inappropriate. Further digging brought me to the conclusion of the PA. Long story - not worth getting into, really.



She denied it, denied it, denied it... until I busted her up with a bombshell lie that she could not duck.



Bad. Our communication techniques were (and still are, I guess) very poor. We should have done Retro many years ago.

She had and EA a few years back. When we were talking through it, she said to me: "It wasn't ever physical. As much as I love you, I love the kids more, and I would never do that to them."

And when I reminded her of her words, she told me she doesn't remember saying them...

Yes. You have a severe communication problem. In some ways that is good, because it is a problem that is relatively easy to fix. It is other problems, such as depression or personality disorders that are much harder to do anything about.

So the topic will come up. The two planets living in your house will come into contact. Try to listen to what she says. Do NOT be thinking of your response while she talks. Listen to what she says. IF you are unprepared to respond because you have been listening. Tell her that. You want to take some time to think about what she says before you respond. There is no rule that says every discussion has to happen at a fast-pace. Then think about your response and be sure that it is not condemning of her, but instead talks about how YOU feel. These two simple rules will help you in communication.

Back when my H and I had problems, our discussions always turned into arguments with us throwing barbed comments at each other. Especially me, being from NY, I am excellent at sarcasm. But what I learned at Retrouvaille is, this is not the way to convince someone of your point of view, by ridiculing their point of view. I learned to listen to him and respond thoughtfully and with concern. This did not come naturally to me. I had to be taught. But it makes a tremendous difference. Conversations do not spiral out of control anymore. I say things looking to hear his point of view.

So try it. It is easy for all of us to say the spouse is an alien, speaking spew. But somewhere in all of it, there is a message that we need to hear. There is a person with feelings that we need to deal with. Because you will never fix the marriage without dealing with the other person.

As a fellow Song Title Thread Namer, I can TOTALLY relate. And yeah, good choice! No 2x4's here - you did fine IMHO.Following up on what I posted on your last thread, re. the part in blue above... I think you ought to tell her where YOU stand in terms of the M right now - make it clear that you have NOT given up on it, regardless of what she thinks. Once again, this needs to be done without crossing the line of heavy pursuing where she sees you pressuring HER to change.

Mark,

I think Rob's point is well-taken. She needs to know your intentions, without pursuing. If all she sees is your absence, the why should she want "back in"? She needs a small taste of the fun she'll be missing out on. She certainly, at least, needs to know your desire is to share a good life with her. State your desire without an invitation or request to do anything. Saving the marriage is such a big ticket item, don't put it out there with any request on your part for her to do anything.

You may, even this week, invite her to do fun things, but, at this stage, don't invite her to "work on the marriage". State you intentions, and at a different time, invite her to taste the sweetness of your interesting and delightful life. Even if it's a glass of wine. Enjoying food and wine with a sparkle in your eye and a grin on your face is attractive.

Ragarding pursuit.

I would remove the word "pursuit" from your language. Not even mild pursuing. The word carries power and has connotations, even in your own mind. For now, banish it.

I prefer the images of attracting, inviting, glowing, shining brightly, drawing her in. It's subtle, but it makes a world of difference.

An old pastor once told me, "Attract, don't pursue, invite don't indict."

Watching a movie you are dying to see and inviting her in to the fun is fine. Asking her on a date, on which the fun depends on her participation is not so great, since your GAL activity depends on her saying yes. You still need to show her she's not necessary to your happiness, but it's fine to invite her in on your already existing happiness. The death knell in situations like this is the belief that SHE is crucial for your happniness. If you believe it you'll be afraid and angry. If she believes it, she'll feel suffocated or contemptuous of you.

And from what I've read, she's not yet seeing a happy, effervescent Mark. She sees you moving on and not pursuing and not falling apart. Great. Now show her the fun, joyful adventurous side of you.

I would advise against talking about money over drinks.

Your "fun" times need to be fun, let your business be business.

Have fun with this.

--Theoden

Thanks all for the support. Honestly, I expected to be told that talking to them was wrong, and I should not have done so (perhaps people are thinking it and not posting... I d/k).

Update: Wife had (or is at-this-moment having) two separate medical proceedures today. I just left a voice message for her, telling her I was calling to see how she is doing, telling her I was thinking about her.

This is the first time I have called for the sole purpose to seeing how she is doing since June...

Mark,

That's not pursuit, it's called being a decent human being. Warmth, kindness are not going chase her away.

I changed it....

Grrovy

Ohio Mark is drive by flirting....watch out ladies.

Mark, all of this is good. Good for your PMA (positive attitude), good for your R with W (even if it just means more peace in the house), and good for your kids to see positive interactions around the house.

Yay!