Divorcebusting.com Forums Divorcebusting.com Archives For Newcomers Archives Plank removed from eye, too late for WAW? 9

Limbo/Atlas,
Thanks. I'm not exactly sure, why, all of a sudden, W feels compelled to share her feelings about me with me again. Maybe she does sense me moving on and is trying to pull me back. I don't know. I'm just tired of trying to interpret her actions and conversations. As OT once said, until she says "I'd like to talk about our R" we don't have a R. She was angry two weeks ago when I didn't answer when I was out and she wanted me to watch the girls (this after I has asked her 4 hours earlier if she wanted me to watch them for her and she had said no).

And, really, I've gotten nothing from her since I moved out. Some kindnesses, which I've reciprocated, but no real friendship or conversation other than very rarely.

Before saying what I'm about to say, I would prefer that we reconcile. The door is open if she wants to look inside. However.

I just can't live my life on the assumption that we will, which includes missing opportunities to meet other people -- including women, without becoming bitter should we ever reconcile.


Yes, that would be nice, but I know it's not going to come -- per the standard WAW contract of blaming all on the H The thing is, I believe you or others have pointed this out, I've pretty much identified at least the major areas of my role in this. So I know even without her saying it.



Today, I find myself ambivalent, given the person she's been to me -- someone she has to talk to as the father of her children. Part of me wants to do this, part of me says it just doesn't matter.



Me too.

Though part of me thinks she's just so wrapped up in her own anger, which I think she's using as a shield against the pain of all of this or as justification (who knows). If she admists that I've become a better, not perfect, but better person, what does that make her? So, I'm the bad guy. Fine.



I think about this now and again. Not to trivialize, but I think it boils down to just that -- I just lost it. She piled pain and pain and pain on top of each other with each revelation and I literally snapped. I think we all have some line beyond which we're pushed, we don't know what we'll do. I reached mine that night, and crossed it for a few minutes, that night. I'll regret that until the day I die.


ST,

In many ways, she is herself. But she is holding onto the anger and resentment very hard. It seems to be close to the surface. Maybe she will one day look back and see the good in our R (and there was a lot of good in our R, more good than bad). As of now, she interprets the most harmless thought or behavior on my part in the most negative way. Sick of it. For me, I need to remove myself from that.


I don't want you to think that I thought (whew) you were forcing your opinions on me. It's a viewpoint that I understand, but don't have. I forgave her A. I've forgiven the pain she's caused me. I've done my best since last Oct to be better than I was (not always successfully and with a number of backslides)). I'm still open to beginning another R with my W. However, as of now, she's STXW.


That's awesome. I'm 8 months into this (actually about 10 if you cound when my W says she realized how she felt but kept allowing me to think things were getting better). Funny thing, a couple of weeks ago, I went through some emails my W and I had exchanged both before she began her A in July of 06 and then again in early 07 to see if I missed anything. Nothing. Some where flirty. Some were practical. Some were from her, some from me. Lots of ILY, from both of us, in there. Both times she did this, I thought our R was improving after having been through some tough times. Show's what I know.


Thank you.


I'm not looking to move to another R, but I'm not avoiding it either. Looking for a date, not a R, if that makes any sense. As I've mentioned, the door is, and will be open, for a while longer. I've known for a while that one day I would wake up and that door would be shut. I'm not there yet, but that day is getting closer. The reality of my life is that I'm a single dad headed towards D because my W doesn't think she can ever fall in love with me again, partially, I'm almost positive, because she is seeing or is considering seeing OM again. I'm just going to be the best me that I can be. Maybe she'll come back, maybe she won't. Maybe I'll meet, date, and fall in love with someone else before then. Maybe not. I don't know. That's what tomorrow is for. We'll find those things out.

PUddle,

I agree. However, maybe I'm niave, but I don't see how going on a date, or series of dates, with one or more folks means that the door is shut on reconciliation. I've thought about this, but can't a date just be that, a date? Not an interview for a future spouse? Just a plain ol' good time with someone?

ST


As I alluded to earlier, there's a lot of truth, I think, in your first point. As far as talking to her, offering constructive criticism, she doesn't want to hear it from me. Thing is, I think most of our problems are communication problems. She doesn't agree.

All I can do is be as kind and sympathetic and helpful to her as we co-parent our children. I offer to be there if she needs help with anything, but she doesn't want it (van needed to have brakes fixed, offered to drive her to work, she said already done). She knows I'll help her, all she has to do is ask. For now, it's not worth pushing.

I think there might be a time next year, when I sit down and just think about talking to her one final time, but I just don't think she'll hear it. We'll see.

W brought over teacher gifts for the girls to bring to school today. She also brought over a Christmas present for me, from the girls (which I didn't expect, got nothing for my bday). She had a look on her face like, "bet you didn't get anything for me and you'll be scrambling tomorrow". She had that sort of look about her.) I think she'll be surprised when I drop off the wrapped presents from the girls for her (printed off 20 or so photos of the girls and they each did a collage and put them in a frame).

Anyway, back to work. Had to get this out of my head.

BD

Hey Heim.

Just checking in on your sitch. The X-mas gift is a touchy subject. I want to get my H something, at least from my D4. Happy to hear you appreciated it.

I don't know what I will end up getting him but I am sure it will be something "Dad like". Also I got him a card and I felt weird cause its a generic "Seasons Greetings" as they didn't have any that really fit our situation. I did laugh as they have cards for people having affairs but not for us separated/ almost divorced folkd.

Hehe, buy him some cologne

Dunno about other men, but I'm a bit of a sucker for the crafty things that kids make. Have her make him a card from Santa or paint a piece of pottery maybe? Cheap. You get to do it with your D (forget it's for him). And it's obviously from her.

Anyway, I had no intention of giving W anything for Christmas. I'll wish her a Merry Christmas next Tuesday, other than that, don't really expect to talk to her until then.

She's tremendously jumpy towards me. I'm pretty tired. Went to pick the girls up so that we could have dinner together -- wanted to see them one last time before they left tomorrow. Anyway, went to get them and she asked me something and I responded. She shot me a look, and I was like, "what?" W: I don't need the sarcasm. Me: What sarcasm? I'm tired. I answered your question, not even thinking of being sarcastic and have tried not to be that way towards you for months. A grunt from her.

Great googally moogally. Personally, my take is she's decided to pursue a R with once and future OM and is gearing herself up against me. Probably thinking about telling her parents as well, I'm sure her Dad's going to love that. Anyway, maybe reading more into it than is there, but that's what instinct says.

Oddly enough, whatever. While I still see the woman I love/d when I look at her, I just don't feel it any longer. She's been so cold towards me for so long. Anyway, I'm friendly and pleasant towards her, and will continue to be so, but I really just don't care at the moment.

BD

BD,

You are officially detached!

Her behavior towards you could be due to a million things, from OM dumping her to PMS. Doesn't matter, just stay detached and let her live in the world she has created for herself. As you know, she will eventually see you as the rock that you are, unaffected by the whirling torrent of her life. At this point, she likely will find herself drawn back to you. The question is only whether you will still be available at this point.

SD.

Heim,



ROFL! This is actually kind of funny, and pretty predictable in my book. Once H2B had noticed the changes I had made, he spent an immeasurable amount of time and went to extensive lengths to test me...over and over and over and over again. This may be W testing you.

Another thing we often find with the WA is that they get angry at us, for a variety of reasons. Either they are trying to pick a fight, again to test us, or they are angry at us for changing now ; the too little too late attitude they we encounter initially.

This may die down after the holidays. Just keep being the neat, new and improved you...consistency is key here -- not only for the WA, but for you. It helps YOU stay grounded and focused in the midst of their crazy-making.

Get some rest, dude...sounds like you need it.

M

Hey Heim,

I don't know---detached? Do you think you are?

Take care.

SD, IA, Puddle,

Thanks, hadn't thought that she was testing. Could be. Who knows. Maybe I'll find out one day, maybe not.

Feeling pretty detached. I don't think I'm "DONE" in the sense of it being totally over for me. If she were to approach me and want to try again, I'm still willing to do that. But, I don't look forward to seeing her. I don't feel like talking to her. I used to get a lift when I saw her name in my inbox or on my cell. Now, it's just a feeling of dread. Of, what now? I still have feelings of love, fondness, and affection for her. If she were to begin seeing someone else, that would still hurt. I've a feeling no matter how detached we are, there's still a pang there for all of us in that situation. All that said, yeah, I think I'm detached. A few months ago, her anger would have affected my mood in a negative way. Now, whatever.

BD

"I think about this now and again. Not to trivialize, but I think it boils down to just that -- I just lost it."

I've brought this up before. It seems critical to me that you work on this issue with an IC. Sometimes it seems that you don't seem to really fully own the responsibility for the consequences of your actions on other people, and you don't seem to really hear her somehow. (This is what was going on with the overnight stuff for the girls, BTW.) Instead, you seem to often go into an attack/blame/tit-for-tat mode to excuse yourself and divert the attention from the real issue.

BTW, just something to consider... If you keep trying to tell her that the issues in your M are communication issues that you want to fix, and she doesn't agree that those are the issues, then it seems unlikely that she'd be willing to work on the M because you deny her concerns that made it worth leaving the M for her.

Regarding OM, trust you intuition, it will seldom be wrong.

In the past, I would agree. I was oblivious guy (in some things, not all). Today, no, I disagree. I think you're confusing two things. One, why I did what I did. I've written this before. I wanted her to hurt as much as I hurt and then I snapped. I'm ashamed that it happened. That's why it did. Two, the impact it had on her. No, I don't discount it. I tried to talk to her about it a few times last year about this time. I wanted to apologize. She never told me how it made her feel. She always said that she had forgiven me. That she knew that wasn't the real me. It was only after she left that she told me it was still affecting her. I have NEVER done anything similar to that. Ever. So, is this a reason she's giving herself to put distance between us, even though she knows I've never done something like that before? I don't know. Until/unless she ever speaks with me about it, what do I do? And, as I've mentioned, I owned up to my actions in June with an apology that she said nailed how my actions made her feel.

I'm confused about your tit for tat to excuse myself and divert attention from the real issue point. I felt like a heel for forgetting to bring the stuff to the girls. I don't like to let them down, especially now, and I did. I acknowledge that. But, at the same time, sometimes people just forget things. It happens. That's the simple explanation: I forgot. I used to be a lot more scatter brained than I am now. Still, occassionally I'll just whiff on something. This is a very large character flaw and one that I've been focused on, well, being more focused. In large measure, I've made good strides. I should have bagged everything up and dropped it off in front of her house. I was running around trying to finish a few things and get to the office that I just forgot. Forgot to add it to my to-do list, which I live by these days. OK, that sounded defensive, but I'm trying to explain what happened. This does tie back into why she did walk -- dependability. I wasn't dependable in many of the little things that grease a R for many years. I had gotten MUCH better, and I'm better now. However, whiffing on something like this, yes, brought all of that back to her, I'm pretty sure I'm right in that guess.

I apologized to both girls, that I'm sorry for letting them down. They said they were upset, but they were OK. "You're a good daddy. You just forgot because you were having fun. We all forget sometimes, I know I do. It's ok Daddy." That is roughly what Lauren said.

The communication thing is something I mention here. I know I've mentioned it to W, but not recently. In her mind, she doesn't feel the spark, doesn't believe the spark can be generated, it's there or it's not, and therefore we can no longer be married. Did she lose that spark because of the things I alluded to in the apology, yep. And, I'm not blaming her here, but she could have helped out more on that as well. I don't blame her for leaving. I was clueless as to what her needs were. I didn't realize them. I gave her love the best way I knew how at the time. The forgetfulness mentioned above drove her nuts on occassion. I've said this a few times -- we really loved each other, but kept missing connecting to each other -- not all of the time, but too often -- in the last 3 or 4 years.

I'll say this as well. I've lost the anger I used to carry. I've lost the borderline depression and associated lack of direction. I'm back to being more patient and thoughtful and caring, like I used to be. I've always been pretty funny. I'm goofy with my kids again -- which they really like, as do I. I'm taking better care of myself. I'm slowly becoming more outgoing. I'm trying to be less prickly and defensive. I've always held back in the past due to fear -- of ridicule/failure/success (still sorting that out in my head) -- but am starting to extend myself in ways I wouldn't have in the past. I think she's noticed a lot of this, but just keeps focusing on the negatives to justify to herself what she's doing -- whatever that is.

I will also say that she's told me, in bits and pieces, a little more of what she's done/been doing on the weekends. I don't ask, she just volunteers. "Can you get the girls because I'm doing X".

I guess this feeling of detachment boils down to this: I did the best that I could (often wrong, often not great, but my best at the time) to save my marriage. She did not. I've done a lot of thinking about my flaws and am trying to correct them. W, in all honesty, is a good person. I like her. I don't know that I'm in love with her right now, though. That said, she also has flaws that I've been thinking about as well -- things that I just accepted because I loved her. I've been thinking, a little, about what I'd like to see from her to make us work. I don't know that she could.

Thanks OT, you always make me think.

BD

H, this is all pretty deep.
I think your funny! Does that help?
C