Divorcebusting.com Forums Divorcebusting.com Archives For Newcomers Archives CVA - Have I Done Everything...No!

Ewe
I did think the last hijack had the perfect ending though...

Hey CVA, just checking in on you, Man. Take care

hey CVA

I think you have done quite a bit and grown quite a bit since you started posting here. You very rarely leave posts where you sound angry or controlling. I know these changes were important to you.

I agree with the others, you need your space, she needs space and that will give you both more perspective. Esp her since she has had it a little too good all this time with you there helping.

I would suggest not bringing her to the X-Mas party, she did just file for divorce. Sorry I know this is painful but it may be better to go it alone. Of course you know what is best for your sitch.

Keep posting, I think we all have some good advice to lend...besides who else would we have to join in our suggestive banter that helps us all see the lighter sides of things?

Hey Rain and WAW!
So H, this is for you. Traded backrubs with thin PJs last night! Ahhhhh, felt good, in both directions, but am readinmg nothing into it. Just felt good, I'm allowed to feel good eh!

WAW, thanks that was a nice thing to say. Most of the time I feel like one of my favorite Matchbox 20 songs "Bent". Self explanatory I think. Telling Sunny yesterday how I feel like I have learned nothing but I am sure I have.


Oohhh, forgot, saw something my Wq wrote in an email (no not snooping, it was up on the computer when I went to look for something for the kids online...) It was a questionaire with a bunch of things like "where would you rather be now? What do you want out of your relationships? - she writes Love and communication, so I am thinking, I don't know what she means by that....what would make her feel like I communicate with her, It dawned on me that "I don't know"? She always says that but what does it mean? I would understand it if she actually tried to communicate with me and I shut her down or didn't communicate back but since she does no talking, its hard to see how you can improve on that?

Oh, and WAW, I am thinking about going to the dinner with the "houselady" or what someone here called "wifeclone" or "WC"...

See ya!
C

Morning CVA! Getting together Friday after work is looking like a real possibility for me. Are you interested and would that possibly work for you?


How did that happen? Who brought it up? What do you mean "in both directions"?


You've learned tons. We all have. The trick is in the application. We can all see each other's sitches, and moments, clearly. It's being in the middle of it and seeing clearly what to do, think, etc. that's tough. It doesn't happen overnight. It takes practice and there will be mistakes/backslides, but you can get there. And that's the opportunity, the gift, you've been given in life. A second chance, to be who you want to be. And it may turn into a second chance wity your W too. But even if it doesn't, it is really a gift.

Now for you, you are much more aware of your self, of your issues, than you were before. And it all starts with self awareness. But you are not fully aware (see below). And changing how you react to and handle your W is the hard part, but you have started that too.

Also, you need to be more aware of how your W "feels," and you need to validate that intellectually and emotionally, even if you don't agree. And I mean validate it in your own head, but validating to her would be excellent to. You really have to understand where she is coming from and why or how she could do that. Right now, you don't understand (note, you don't have to agree - we are all different) where she is coming from, how she oculd handle things like she did, so you discount her, and you get frustrated/angry. You need more compassion for her, what's she is feeling, what she is going through, and where she is coming from. (BTW, that is where the IMAGO dialogue and techniques can help.)

Have you ever read a book called "In a Different Voice" by Carol Gilligan? It's an interesting read. She is a (Harvard?) sociologist, I think. I read it 20 years ago. Basically, she talks about how men and women (her experiement was really on boys and girls, but extrapolating some) just have different perspectives on life (different voices). They just are different. And similarly, people of different faiths, colors, nationalities, etc., some times just simply have different voices/perspectives. In a way, we all have a different voice. We don't have to agree with other perpectives/backgrounds/voices, but we should hear them, listen to them, consider them, respect them, appreciate them, validate them. You'll see where I am going with this more below.



Well, damn, CVA. There's a real gem you stumbled on. She's told you what was missing in your R/M. She's told you what she wants/needs. There's your roadmap. If there is an opening for you (and there may be or may not be, but don't get hung up that), she's given you the prescription. And remember, even if you can't learn to communicate better or make someone else feel more loved in time to save your M, that would be wonderful for your next partner.



Ok, good self awareness. You don't know. Now you're job here is to keep the focus on you (what you can control) and not make this about your W. Don't turn this into the blame game. Playing the blame game is selfish. It is designed to make you feel better. But it won't save your M (could even doom it), and it won't make you a better person/partner.

Your W feels the way she does. Period. It's not right or wrong, it just is. It's her voice. Her perspective. She doesn't feel like you (or the two of you) communicate well. She also didn't feel loved by you. Again, period. End of analysis. It is what it is. Harsh reality, I know, but you have to accept that. Embrace it even. Really, I suspect most (if not all) of us LBSs have to come to this point for there to be any real growth. I did. (BTW, it's an chance for AFGE - Another F*cking Growth Experience! That's the gift.)



That's the blame. Do you feel better? It's not CVA, it's her. Big Mistake. You're missing your opportunity for AFGE here. You're missing your gift, to become a better CVA. This is your problem, not hers. You cannot make this issue about her. There is a reason she doesn't try to communicate with you. There is a reason she shuts down. Some of that may be innate to her, true, but you are wasting your time even thinking about it cause you CANNOT CONTROL THAT. Avoidance may be her coping mechanism. It is what it is. But you are in denial if you don't think there are things you do that contribute to this problem. So quit cheating yourself (and her?), and figure it out. Own up to it.

Sorry if that seems harsh, but I can say it because we're friends and because the same is true of me (and maybe all of us). This is the deep soul searching we have to face. For me, I never validated my W. Ever. I invalidated anything and everything she said. I would always argue, make the ocunterpoint, play devil's advocate. I would always say "but" whenever she finished talking. Think about that. She would tell me something important to her. Whatever it was. She wanted to be heard, and she wanted to be understood, and all that mattered to me was making sure my point was heard, so I'd lead with "but." Awful.

I would always try to make her see what was important to me, rather than seeing what was important to her. Listening is a real gift. I was the world's worst listener. Still not good at it. You need to spend some serious time thinking about this CVA. For yourself.

Note, even if you figure this out, and even if you manage to be different around W, it would take a long long long time for her to accept that the changes are real and perhaps open up to you. It would also take a long long time for her to heal from the past hurt. Ti let the bad memories and emotions go. You can't just have the lightbulb go off, tell W, start acting differently right away, and expect her to say, well, ok, finally, glad you go to this point, let's go for it. Now realistic at all. Think of how many years of non-positive communication you have to overcome.

Finally, you didn't address the love part. after reading her answer. Why not? This is HUGE. She didn't feel loved. My W either. My W felt like she was my sixth priority. Ouch, that hurts to hear. But it was true. I have to hear it.

Why did your W not feel loved? What did you not do to make her feel loved? What's her LL? (I can tell you that I didn't do nearly enough before this year. But I've learned some things/way to make some else feel loved, and I'd be happy to share how I did that.)

One final point. This is not some therapy for the fun of it. This is not just a way to pass time with mental exercises. CVA, the is absolutely the KEY for you right now, at this moment. Embrace this soul searching. This holds the key to you taking the next step personally in growth.

Guess I should qualify all of this post with one, big, general "in my opinion."

Hope it helps,
Nomo

Surgical Nomo
Lots to think about, wish I would have been in this mindset for past 9 mos, I actually thought I was but clearly not. So, here goes, 100% CVA focus on this stuff

U the man
C

I feel the same way sometimes. Wish I had figured it out 2.5 to 3 years ago. Oh well. We didn't. Can't change that so stop worrying about things we can't change and turn our focus to what we can change - us, here and now. Go get 'em Tiger!

Nomo

PS - Friday night???

Ok, a suspected, WC does not really want to go tomorrow night. She is "totally" uncomfortable dating a married man, even though...(add all the circumstances) + is very frustrated w/ her sitch.

No big deal, it was a fun thought. Maybe after this is all over with. Who knows. What I am actually amazed at is that there are actually women out there who would date guys like me (us) i.e. married but separated and most likely headed for a D. Too much risk for the person getting involved I would think.

Damned if you do, damned if you dont.

C

CVA,

Actually, its the smart thing for them to do to not get involved with guys like us. The woman I see feels the same way. She just can't help herself.

Did you tell CW you didn't want a D, or anything like that? If so, she knows you're not done til you get D'd, so why would she invest in or get attached to you now? Too complicated; too much risk of heartache.

Nomo

Help herself...Who could?