Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums THE SEX-STARVED MARRIAGE Looks like the end

I'm glad I ran it past your Type 4 radar Lil. He has always been very difficult to communicate clearly with and I think that's part of the reason. He's way too nice and cordial for me to understand a word of what he's saying most of the time and he's trained me to be far less blunt than I would normally be.

I'm not sure anyone's in a position to move out right away - just for pure financial reasons. Getting an apartment would not be an option and our housing market seems set to head the same way as the US one so who knows how long it might take to sell the house.

My plan is to get him to stay in the house and rent out the spare rooms. He could raise enough equity on the house for me to cash buy a smaller place and the rents would cover that extra out-going. But all that is going to take time to organise. In the meantime there is no other option but to continue living under the same roof.

I don't want to get into all these details right away with him. He will pitch a fit and dig his heels in and we will both end up financially worse off. I've got to get us to a point where we are amically brainstorming some solutions for maintaining two households and let him think he thought of it or just let the figures do the talking when we weigh up different options. So I can't yet make statements like "I expect you to look for an apartment". I could say "I expect you to move into the upstairs bedroom".

Damn, Fran. ((()))

When I was getting ready to file papers to terminate marriage #1, I intended to wait until after Christmas. When she told me to leave the house, four days after my father's death, I decided that I wasn't going to wait. My filing date was December 5. Ten years ago.

Of course, my kids' Christmas was going to suck either way, we were so ugly to each other by then, so YMMV.

By the way, what the heck is a "coil thread" and why would it hurt him during sex?

Hairdog

This is the way normal people think, choc. Alcoholics don't think this way.

The coil is a term for IUD. It has threads that dangle outside the cervix so the doc can get it back out again when necessary. Apparently now I've googled it, if the threads are too short they can "spike" the man during sex, I guess the shorter they are the less flexible or something. I don't know what material they are made of it is probably something more durable than a tampon thread as they have to stay intact for 5 years.

The whole xmas thing is the only thing that is making me put off saying anything til January. I seem to remember doing that last year and then H gave me a Xmas present of a trip to Paris for valentines, so somehow it never happend. Don't want to do that again.

S8 has been very moody lately and I am suspicious someone has finally burst his bubble about Santa (at school I guess). I have a horrible feeling this is going to be his worst Xmas ever - poor soul.

I had an IUD like that once years ago and I remember my partner of the moment wincing in pain when he encountered that "thread," although it's not really a soft thread-- at least mine wasn't-- it's more like one of those stiff nylon threads that they use to put labels in the backs of shirts that stab you in the back of the neck.

But ask any of the HD guys on here what they would do in like circumstances? I'm guessing they'd suggest a different method, ask her to ask her GYN if there's something that can be done? Not just say, "Okay no sex."

Lame excuse.

Fran,

I'm so sorry. There is simply no way to make this whole thing even remotely easy. A large part of why I am so committed to my own SSM is because I have been D. I won't do it again unless my H initiates it. Then again I don't have alcoholism or other issues like that to deal with. We have
a pleasant life together in a roomate/friend kind of way.

I don't say this to dissuade you from anything. Once you are done you are done. I will caution you not to be suprised by how your H reacts or handles himself from here. As MJ found out - when she removed herself from the equation her H fell totally apart. Happened to my xH too. Seven years later he is still not together - underemployed, living with Mom and Dad, not making child support payments etc...

During the holidays it will be really important to center yourself and recognize the meaning and beauty in it instead of the hallmark version. KWIM??? Focus on gratitude for what you have, being together with loved ones, the lovely sights, sounds, fragrances etc... It will help.

Karen

Your GYN can clip those threads - problem solved!

Ellie

First off, I want to say that I, obviously, absolutely understand if you are absolutely fed up and just want to get off the miserable hamster wheel but....let me explain what I meant when I said that if you were to act "strong bunny" that would be the only possible chance to move forward in your marriage. It's clear to me from your "list of things a wife should do" that your H is still signaling "Mommy make me happy and then I will behave" (my X almost literally said this during one of his attempts to reconcile with me, causing me to experience great bitter, internal not-really-funny laughter) Also, your comment "time for me to be brave" means that you are accepting the adult lioness role in terms of being willing to take on financial and other independence type functioning.

Really, what I am doing here is translating/explaining the advice that BF offered me in some sort of secret male cave crypto-code (or at least that's what I think I am doing but I'm still not sure due to the whole loss of information during transmission from Mars to Venus problem) The only hope for your marriage is to strongly signal to your H something like "I want your help and care." in a differentiated manner. IOW, you need to make yourself vulnerable, but not weak, in relation to a man whose behavior is mostly cruel (non-differentiated top) and immature (non-differentiated puppy). Another way to look at it is that you need to signal "I deserve to be cared for in a relationship." rather than "I can take care of myself but not with the likes of you around." (both are true, it's just a matter of perspective) If you signal the first consistently, your H will have no choice but to either "man up" or leave. If he is unwilling to deal with his issues with alcohol and sexuality, he will leave and do the equivalent of running away from home and getting a job in Denver that pays $7 an hour and ride a bicycle to work and live in one room on the street where the prostitutes hang out and pay zero child support.

Of course, I can offer you this hindsight is 20/20 POV only because since my separation I have dated men who have acted Alpha and thereby naturally caused me to respond increasingly strong "bunny". After almost 20 years of marriage with my 2bx, my bunny was a weak*ss bedraggled crybaby hiding in a cold dark hole. It was like a freakin' miracle to have a man even attempt to make smiling pleasant conversation with me and I had a Romanian-baby-left-alone-in-a-crib reaction when Teddy actually tried to cuddle with me. But, Corri was right when she advised me to go out and get all the "man balm" I needed and I'm doing much better. So, I don't even know how to advise you to be able to self-validate enough to bootstrap up to strong bunny on your own so maybe my above recommendation was lame. Also, you aren't as much of a crybaby as me so you may be having more difficulty getting "in touch" with your bunny rather than having a strong rather than weak bunny, although they are related problems of non-differentiation or non-integration.

Mojo,

Thanks so much for your posts. They are full of insight and the right kind of advice. I always knew your H and mine were twins separated at birth. Mind you I think you got the good-looking one But I'm going to have to challenge you to an international cry-baby contest.

Obviously, I did not press SEND on that email. I looked into the financial aspects more thoroughly and I believe if I went for a clean break settlement whereby I get all the equity in the house and in a flat that we let out, he doesn't have to pay child support, then I could make it and he could go hang out in the gutter all he likes. The gutter scenario has never been far from my mind which is one of the reasons I have hung on. That is why I have said "time to be brave", a D has for a long-time looked to me like wilful financial suicide. The fact that I stick around and mop up contributes to the functionality of H as a bread-winning alco.

"Mommy make me happy and then I will behave" I'm reading that loud and clear. If I were to say "be a man and have an adult relationship with me" I might as well talk to him in Latvian.

The answer to a child whining they'll behave if you buy them the candy is to say behave first then we'll talk about the candy. In fact it's not that, it's "good behaviour is the bottom line - exceptional behaviour may merit candy".

My D6 has been teaching me some boundary setting lessons lately. First lesson: take emotions out of the picture, second lesson: say it once don't say it again, third lesson: if you say it do it. The particular of this has been getting her dressed for school in the morning - it's been a long time battle and source of tension. Now I just leave for school on time each day whatever state of dress she happens to be in. Lately she's been fully dressed each time.

The only hope for your marriage is to strongly signal to your H something like "I want your help and care." in a differentiated manner. IOW, you need to make yourself vulnerable, but not weak, in relation to a man whose behavior is mostly cruel (non-differentiated top) and immature (non-differentiated puppy). Another way to look at it is that you need to signal "I deserve to be cared for in a relationship." rather than "I can take care of myself but not with the likes of you around."

I almost get this but not quite. If you can clarify with an example that would help. I think my big mistake was coming of weak when H first stood there with our new-born son not 3 days old, strapping on his boots and saying "I can't do this I'm out of here". Instead of saying "Fvck off then" I fairly clung to his legs and begged him to stay. HUGE mistake - but understandable under the circumstances. As soon as I was weak and put him on top he became cruel.

I'm kind of getting what Choc says about power and not abusing it. I feel I have power right now because when he threw down the towel and I was not fazed by it the minute that happened he changed. I refuse to be moved by either good behaviour or bad on his part. What I mean by good behaviour is goody-goody behaviour. He is right now in the process of going completely over-board in the kitchen and cooking me up a three course gourmet dinner. I'm not in the least impressed. I don't want occasional displays of vituosity - vanity really - I just want solid decent behaviour week in week out.

I am trying to formulate what to talk about over dinner. I think it will be a version of the email.

I'm so grateful to everyone on this board - it helps so much to have you guys on the team


Fran