Perhaps an open (hopefully temporary) seperation is not a bad idea. The two of you have been immersed in this song and dance for 6 years. Perhaps a little clearly defined distance would help you both detach from the situation and gain a different perspective.
As you mentioned your kids already know what is going on. Kids always do.
W does appear reluctant to leave completely. Perhaps a constructive discussion on why she wants to stay while being seperated might help. It will have to be a discussion where you duct tape and just listen.
I think M's when both spouses work are especially challenging. There are no models to follow - no examples of what works. And when you are overwhelmed and unable to balance life - it is easy to give into those feelings that you have failed.
My father pointed out when I was M, that I was trying to be both create a home for H like my stay at home mother and was the primary wage earner like my father - and that was simply not possible. My girlfriends and I often talk about possible solutions... I am not sure I know the answer. But then again you already know that I swung to the other extremee and haven't even attempted a real R since my D b/c deep inside I don't believe I can work, be a mother and a P. I just cannot spread myself that thin and feel good about myself...
Anyway - those are my ramblings about my life. I don't know if they apply to your W.
And that goes for the rest of you lurkers out there!
Looking back at my formative years, both of my parents worked but their jobs did not spill over into late afternoons/evenings most of the time. It helped that Mom and Dad could rely on my oldest sister to watch after us (me and my two younger sisters) and when it came time for my oldest sister to strike out on her own, the rest of us could pitch in and we got along very well. Mom and Dad had their ups and downs but they have stayed together for fifty years now.
So I hope you don't close the door on finding a R. You just might find the right person to be a very positive role model as a father and have it all.
Me 52, STBEX 52 D 17, S 12 M 20 years Em Sep since 2002, Phys Sep Sept 2009
I had a chance to chat with my IC yesterday for a few minutes and updated him on what W had sent by e-mail to me. I let him know that I was not going to put any impediments in the way of W going through with this "in-house" separation idea. IC and I agreed that of all the options available, W's choice was the one that would be the most confusing for the kids to deal with - that their attitude will likely be having to walk on egg shells most of the time. I pointed out to IC that based on everything that I know about W, she has never truly lived alone before - she always had a shared living options in her prior two separations/divorces and that it appears living apart really unsettles her.
I also told IC that I had an initial consult with an attorney scheduled for next week since W is much more familiar with this path than I am. IC thought it was an excellent idea and that I am the only one now who can guarantee that I will look out for my best interests and those of our kids (W will have to show by deeds/actions/behaviour that her commitment is equal to mine).
I also decided to participate in this "initial discussion" that W has planned with the kids. IC was interested in knowing how I would respond to the inevitable question "Are the two of you going to divorce?" I told IC that I would tell the kids "I don't know how this is going to turn out but that your mom and I will always love the two of you."
Before I hung up, IC said that his sense was that I was doing all of the right things. On my way to work this morning, I recalled that a long time ago I had the innate sense to do the right thing regardless of the situation. It's nice to know that someone believes that I am getting that back.
I still plan on not giving W an official response until after my regular appointment with IC. I hope I have the strength and wisdom to proceed down this path with diginity, maintaining respect for W, unconditional love for all of us and to come out of all of this a better person than I was over six years ago. I really wish W would move out completely so that I would have an easier time with maintaining loving detachment and letting go...
Me 52, STBEX 52 D 17, S 12 M 20 years Em Sep since 2002, Phys Sep Sept 2009
And per usual - nothing earth shattering (or molehill shattering ) to report. W was somewhat surprised last week when I mentioned that the kids and I were taking her out for dinner to celebrate her birthday and we had a pretty good time. Trying not to mind read but I suspected W thought I would treat her birthday the same way she has treated mine earlier this year and last year (where she had other plans made). But that kind of attitude is not a healthy one for me.
I am beginning to get apprehensive about my initial visit with the attorney later this week. Again - this is not what I want to do but I need to get a sense of what my rights and responsibilities are since W is pushing for this "in-house" separation. Also, the more that I think about it the more I should insist that W share more of the chore load around the house. Not necessaraily in the cooking area (since her schedule is far more fluid than mine) but it seems to be such a struggle for her to get motivated in this area. Of course - if she were to move out she would find out just how much she would need to do on her own.
Which reminds me that I need to begin a draft of my response to W's e-mail and get it done soon before Thanksgiving. I don't have off those three days since my boss is taking the time off but I have a few vacation days I have to use before the end of the year. And there's Christmas to get ready for - enough to keep me busy!
Me 52, STBEX 52 D 17, S 12 M 20 years Em Sep since 2002, Phys Sep Sept 2009
The visit with the attorney went pretty well yesterday. Gave me a number of things to think about on my end. But what is very clear is that this "in-house separation" W wants is not a separation in the eyes of the law. In order to get a divorce, the parties must physically live apart for one year - in separate residences. In addition, there are other issues (financial, property, etc.) that W has not even begun to address.
Which makes me wonder about all of this. I know that W will find out sooner rather than later since all of our bill paying/financial is so intertwined and I need to write a check for the initial consultation (plus any follow up / clarification questions that may come up in the next couple of weeks). And when she asks, I will simply tell her that I sought information from a professional in order to protect my interests and those of my children.
I hope to post more on this during the weekend when W is busy with other things...
Me 52, STBEX 52 D 17, S 12 M 20 years Em Sep since 2002, Phys Sep Sept 2009
Well, I did promise to visit here this evening. W and S have an evening out tonight and D is away for the weekend - so it's a quiet evening for me...
For some odd reason, I am beginning to think that W is trying her level best to get me so frustrated concerning our sitch that I will be the first one to "break" (meaning to leave). It gets very frustrating that I go out of my way day in and day out to actively listen / validate / empathize with W's struggles and she takes absolutely no interest in my work struggles / home thoughts / etc. After being at this for so long, it takes a lot of effort to keep the positives in mind:
* W has not physically left our house or our bedroom * W is very devoted to our kids * W shows no outward signs of pushing for a more definitive break * W goes out of her way to tell me who she is going to be with on the evenings she has something planned * W's expenditures are very transparent and she goes out of her way to let me know what she is planning to spend on herself
I suspect that when she finds out I did an initial consult with an attorney with the firm that handled our wills, she will flip. But the more I think about it, the more I am ready for it. Since this is the path she told me she wants to go down, I will do all I can to protect my interests and those of our kids.
But I also have to let her know that I "let her go" a long time ago. That I will not be caught up in her drama - her angst - her victimhood.
One positive I took away from my attorney consult is that those women who have been in multiple marriages are extremely reluctant to leave once the "cold hard facts" are laid before them. I have to trust my instincts to do the right thing by all of us. Regardless - I will come out of this a much better person than I went in over six years ago...
Me 52, STBEX 52 D 17, S 12 M 20 years Em Sep since 2002, Phys Sep Sept 2009
Just a minor update concerning differences in style:
Last week we found out at work that someone who had been a contract employee at work for over a year and whose contract my bosses allowed to expire had filed a civil lawsuit against the temp agency who actually employed him, the company where I work and our state Department of Employment Opportunity (who originally reviewed his complaints he filed and was summarily dismissed as being baseless). In with the suit filing was about an inch thick stack of papers relating to people who have been viewed as "bullied" or "picked upon" and incidents such as Columbine, the Virginia Tech slayings and others. Having worked with the guy in question for the better part of the year, much of what he described as "bullying" at work was nothing of the sort and everyone I knew treated him properly.
Needless to say, there was enough information and concern that security at work has been heightened and we have a police presence for the immediate future. When I told W in detail about all of this, she did not express any degree of validation or concern for what my coworkers and I are going through and really acted very dismissively.
Last evening, W found out that the next two weeks at work would be very hectic and stressful as a critical deadline is approaching and people from her home office were delaying getting critical information to her. This is not the first time she has gone through this - so I listented attentively and validated her heightened frustration level. I thanked her for letting me know and mentioned that the kids and I would do our best to keep the home front going.
Now I am beginning to understand more deeply how different W and I truly are - and how I can't really expect her to be there for me any more...
Me 52, STBEX 52 D 17, S 12 M 20 years Em Sep since 2002, Phys Sep Sept 2009
Not much excitement for the long Thanksgiving weekend. We basically had a restful time and things were pretty quiet on the W front.
From what I can tell at work, no crazy people have shown up around here but there is a gigantic work stressor ($4M project getting ready to ship and some conflicting testing data that we need to resolve). W's attitude towards this was one of indifference as she has had to deal with her own work issues.
But I am looking forward to my IC session tomorrow morning and hoping I can make some sense of everything going on. One very positive note is that I talked to my parents and all of my sisters on Thanksgiving and they are very solidly in my corner. I could not say much since W was around but they were glad when I told them I did seek some legal advice. I really hope I don't need to visit the lawyer again - but we will see. I do need to write up a response to W concerning her last e-mail to me - so that is looming on the horizon...
Me 52, STBEX 52 D 17, S 12 M 20 years Em Sep since 2002, Phys Sep Sept 2009
It's been a busy week with my work crises and a visit to my IC to talk about W's latest e-mail. I do owe her a response and have copied my draft which I hope to send to her in a few days:
Dear W,
Thank you for being patient while I have been sorting through my thoughts and sought input from my therapist concerning what you have written to me and the direction that you wish to go. In the years we have been together, one of my strongest wishes has been to give you the freedom and support to pursue your dreams and to find happiness within yourself. Although I do not agree with your plans for this "in house separation", I will do nothing to impede you as long as our children are not greatly affected by your decision. I will not stand in your way of moving into the downstairs bedroom.
You wrote that you were disturbed when S told you how I felt regarding your increasing efforts to exclude me from family activities. When the kids brought this subject up several weeks ago, I told them that I did not mind you doing activities with the kids outside of Scouts, lessons, etc. - that it was very healthy to do so. But both kids observed that you were doing this to excess - and I agreed with their perception. I understand the unresolved hatred that you exhibit towards me. Having weighed the interpretations of your actions and demeanor towards me over the past five years with my therapist, I do not use the word "hatred" lightly. It is also not a road I want to go down as it is not at all healthy for me and everyone deserves better from me.
You suggested taking responsibility for all of the cooking and grocery duties during half of every month. Most of the meals that I have fixed over the past few years are rather basic but I do what I can to incorporate everyone's suggestions for how I can improve things. We can try this for a couple of months and see how it works. Although S and D sometimes help me out, I do my best not to make their participation too extensive and hope that you will follow that lead.
You left open a timetable for having an initial formal discussion with the kids concerning this "in-house" separation and divorce path you want to pursue. I believe it is vitally important that I participate and do my best to answer any questions that S and D may ask. Unlike you, I have never been down this particular path so I cannot predict what I will do. Certainly, the kids' welfare will be a primary consideration but not to the exclusion of my total health and well being. My parents and sisters know the details (including the pornography that triggered this) of our trials and tribulations and understand keeping my health and the kids' health in the forefront of my thoughts.
In your first letter, you wrote that you and I may enjoy each other's company more if there were no false expectations that we were a happily married couple. For the past several years, I have observed that the fewer expectations I had of you the healthier my well being and outlook became. Knowing your history as well as you do and from observations your mother shared with me over the years we have been together, I have no expectations that your demeanor and treatment of me will improve. However, if enjoying each other's company is a sincere goal of yours, only time will tell. I believe that we all will benefit if that becomes a reality.
Love, Me
Me 52, STBEX 52 D 17, S 12 M 20 years Em Sep since 2002, Phys Sep Sept 2009
Wow you certainly are putting up with a lot. One true positive is that there is communication between the two of you even if it is in the form of emails/letters.
Regarding your most recent letter...it all sounds great I'd just loose the last paragraph.
I admire your strength and determination.
If you honestly do not believe w's feelings about you and the m have nothing to do with your past porn issues then what do you think her issue with you is?
) to report. W was somewhat surprised last week when I mentioned that the kids and I were taking her out for dinner to celebrate her birthday and we had a pretty good time. Trying not to mind read but I suspected W thought I would treat her birthday the same way she has treated mine earlier this year and last year (where she had other plans made). But that kind of attitude is not a healthy one for me.