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I hear you about the lonelinesss. It's great hanging out with friends and family, I always have a good time, but it's not the same. When spending time with my W it was just different, everything was just better with her than with anyone else. I guess that's the thing about being in love with a wonderful person, and being with someone who feels the same. Not to even mention that happiness and comfort of even just sleeping in bed with my arms around her. There is just an emptiness due to all this that can't be filled by friends.

You're right too, that it's not the same with her either. That feeling of happiness spending time with her or talking to her just isn't there on the same level...I guess that's cause as far as I'm concerned it's not the same person now.

I hope your talk goes well. Listen to her.

Wawpioneer,




Let me be quite candid, do you want to save your marriage, if yes get into DB big time. Forget about what your W is thinking, you will only be able to move forward if you are actually prepared to let go of her and your M. Letting go, don't let this scare you, if your W was truly finished she would have already headed for the hills long time ago. Letting go is all about giving her the space to sort her head out. So brace yourself because you are in this for the duration , you are in for a long bumpy ride.

However, You can take control of you sitch by taking control of yourself. If you don't understand please shout out to us.

If GAL is difficult for you, mix and match, if you can GAL get out and do it, if you can't "fake it til you can make it" but most of all make sure that your W see you doing something active.

I am sorry but there are no short cut to a happy ending, your outcome is going to be solely down to you, but we on this site will support you when you reach out to us.

Take care, keep posting cos we're all watching.

I agree with the need to GAL. I know what you're going through with the emotions. When she says those dreaded words listen and don't defend yourself. I understand the weight loss, I've lost going on 60lbs myself, need to shop.

One thing my sitch has done, is I've gotten closer to my kids(26 to 19yo). W used to call S26 and D24 and keep me updated, now I call them myself twice a week, and hang out with D24 one day a week. GAL is hard for me to do right now but I'll be starting soon. Just had quad bypass surgery 10/15. Hung out with S25 last night at local pub.

Come here to vent and for good advice, try not to look or sound sad or needy when you talk with W. I know it's hard to be upbeat and positive, but whiny and needy will drive her farther away. A lot of us have done that. Try to make changes that will draw her back, become the man she fell in love with again.

Thanks micoms, Lanzo, and mako. I needed those strong words of encouragement tonight. I had a hard time after spending so much time walking around in Walmart for over an hour and a half. I am going to my gramma's house tomorrow for a holiday dinner. I still have not heard from WAW. Our councelor wants us to talk for no more than one hour before next Thursday. I appreciate the advice. I will do more listening than talking. Hard to validate her feelings though when she says such cold things about our relationship and our M. I will try hard though especially to not defend myself or the relationship. I think my biggest mistake thus far has been my attempts to present arguement on why she should give us another chance. She may be taking this as me not validating her feelings. How do I validate her feelings though without agreeing with her? I obviously do not agree with her on those issues. I have heard the word "validate" several times and I guess that I am somewhat confused. What words would you recommend to use to validate her feelings? After I validate...then what? I feel clueless here. Thanks!

Lanzo...I think that I am having a hard time taking control of my situation. I told my bf yesterday that I am having a hard time GAL. I don't know what to do. Any suggestions on how to take control and GAL? Thanks!

See the thread below, especially the post by Just_me, then the post by WAWed quoting Just_me from elsewhere.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1277470&page=7#Post1277470

Validating doesn't necessarily mean agreeing, it means understanding and conveying that you get what she's saying, and that her feelings have merit (even when they do not). When she is validated, she feels more open and conencted, that you are really understanding her. When you argue why you should stay together, you are telling her you don't get it or that her feelings don't have merit, so she will likely just withdraw from you, people don't like to be told they are wrong, particularly when they know they are right.

I read it mako. Good advice. I think that I understand the mechanics of it a little better now. I am not very good in this whole validation thing. She brought this up in the beginning. She said that her feelings were not being validated and that her opinions did not matter. She could not be the "real her" around me but could when she talked with the other man on the Internet and phone. I will work on this area of communication and also on control. I think it will take some hard work on my part. Thanks for the info and encouragement.

Hi wawpioneer,

As hard as it sounds you have no control over your W so you have to put her and your M to one side and work on you. Taking control is about starting to do things for you to lift your spirits and project a positive image. If your W notices and you get a positive reaction from her then that is the added bonus. GAL can be anything from going for walks, taking up dance classes, even calling on friends you don't normally see. (Don't unload your problems on them though). GAL should anything that keeps you active and stops you falling into a depression.




You're going to hear a lot of stuff like this because in her mind she is continually trying to justify her decision to leave a bad relationship. Argue with her and this will confirm her decision, beg plead or grovel, this will confim her decision. But if you listen and validate it will make her stop and think. You will get more angry words from her but you will need to face it head on and keep listening. If you can do this you will eventually begin to see changes. Don't expect to see immediate changes you will need to develop patience as all of this will take time.

Take care for now

Hey waw-p. Thanks for posting over on my thread and for the kind words. Let me share a little about what the next year may bring you and why you must do this - and to assure you, you are doing the right thing.

You are undertaking a huge resposibility - busting your D and working toward your W's salvation. It will not be easy. It will not be over quickly. She will not wake up one day and come running home admitting all her failings and falling to your feet begging your forgiveness. It is a huge resposibility, because at the beginning - you will fight this battle alone. Family will not support you and, in fact, will encourage you to move on. Friends will choose sides, and do the same. Even therapists and spititual counselors may or may not agree with your decision. But believe me, you are doing the right thing. If you have even an ounce of spirituality in you, you have to realize that your WAW has betrayed you and God by taking this course. And at this point, if not YOU, then who will pray for her?

All the advice so far is spot-on. Here's my 2 cents.

One of the first things I was faced with is making a self-evaluation of my short-comings inside the marriage. Where did I drop the ball? What should I have done differently? This takes a little beating up on yourself but it has to be done. Your W is seeking her peace somewhere other then with you - her covenant spouse. She is so uncomfortable with whatever is on her mind that she is willingly breaking her vow to you and to God. There is something in your character or personality that she could no longer live with. It's your responsibility to yourself and to her to figure this out and fix it. Be humble. Be honest with yourself and listen carefully to anything she is willing to share with you. Because the facts are clear. Whatever the issue was, unless you correct it - there is near zero hope she will return. Why in the world would she return to something she just left?

You have to have absolute confidence in yourself, your wife, your marriage and God that this is a trial you have to go through - but it's a small chapter in a much larger novel (or in some cases, a mini-series, LOL). And ultimately, you belong together and will be together. Love, Hope and Faith. Never let those three things leave you.

Last point for now - you and I are at a severe disadvantage. Unlike many here, we don't have children. We have nothing physically that binds us to our wives and they have no reason to stay in contact with us. So EVERY EFFORT your W makes to be in touch or share some intimate information is significant. (She told you she could not be the "real her" - that's HUGE!!!!). Being childless makes it a little more difficult - but far from impossible. Each contact is a blessing in this case. But on the same note - you must absolutely, positively minimize the backslides. No anger, no bittterness, no hostility. Follow her pace and remember, you are doing this for her emotional and spiritual well being. Yes, you want your marriage back - but that will come as a result of doing all the other things.

Thank you for that incredible insight I_W. I appreciate the guidance and kind words. I will make it a point to listen and try to discover those things that she did not like in me that drove her to this and work on those specifically.

I do have an update on some contact with waw. She sent me a text wanting to set up a time to get her scanner and some older pictures because she got her dad an electronic picture frame for X-mas and she needed to put some pictures on them. She did ask if it was OK to put our vacation pictures together on it. I said that was up to her and she then said that her dad would like it no matter what the outcome. I helped her get some of those things in the house and she was in a relatively good mood. She did look a little hesitant when she first walked in but I had attempted to be in a good mood while she was here and that seemed to put her a little more at ease. We did not really talk about the R at all but I did ask if she had filed papers yet and she said that they are on hold and she was not sure if they would be legal separation papers or D papers. She said that she was thinking on that. We are also postponing our meeting together until Tuesday evening to talk a little about the R. She said that she did not understand the assignment from the councelor (that tells me that she was not serious about it then). I described the assignment to her as I understood it. She said that she would think about it and maybe write some things down. Interesting.

The assignment from the C was to attempt to discover if we had any emotional energy to give our M a chance and if we did what type of effort were we willing to put forth. He also wants us to come up with small goals to reach by a certain date. I have no idea what small goals to come up with. I told her that I did not know if I was comfortable with a date and she said that "well, that is just so it doesn't just drag on". I thought that sounded like she would not expect anything to change. That was not real encouraging to me.

She said that she was going to MI for X-mas this year. I offered to go with her to help drive but she said that she really just wanted to get away a little and that she needed to do some things "on her own". It will be pretty hard to go through X-mas without her this year. Before she left we stood in one of the rooms and she said that there is so much "stuff" around. I think she was making a mention to the fact that she used to buy things to try to make her happy instead of attempting to find happiness in herself and our M. She just looked at one of the bookcases in a daze for nearly 30 seconds. I could tell she was thinking about something and about things but I dared not asked what was on her mind. Surely she would talk about it if she wanted too. She also reached out and gave me a hug before she left. I am sure it meant more to me than to her.

Thanks for all the advice and please keep it coming. We are meeting on Tuesday to talk about whether we are going to make an attempt at our M. Any thoughts?

I don't really have any specific thoughts, except the validating stuff mentioned above. Never really got to discuss whether we would make an attempt at the M, as W went straight to "I have no desire to try" mode and refused counseling, hasn't backed off from that.

I just want to wish you good luck on the talk though...