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Hey CMC,
I just went back and read your entire sitch (yes, I am at work too!). Wow, that is quite a chain of events. Our H's do sound ALOT alike. Esp the "if you want" crap!! I hate that, could you just tell me if you want/don't want what I am asking.
Anyway, I am confused about one thing. At what point this went from you being done and him begging to come back, to you wanting him to come home and him wanting to do his own thing?
I totally agree with you about not wanting him there when watching d. If you want to stay home and watch movies by yourself, you should be able to without him knowing what you are doing. The S's need to wonder what we are up to too! My H does that alot too and it gives me no time to myself, yet when he is at his place I have no idea what he is doing. If he does take them somewhere else, he never gives me a time when they will return or if they are spending the night, he always says he'll call. Never does and I end up wondering if I am supposed to be at home or doing my own thing. Very frustrating and unfair.
I was also the exact same way about telling my H everything. I would do something or find something out in the middle of the day and immediately call him and tell him about it. He never shared things with me. We would be around his family and they would say, "Oh, [husband's name] how is that big project you are working on going? I can't believe this or that happened!" I always felt left out and if I would ask why he didn't tell me about it he would act annoyed and say he forgot or he would try to tell me he did. Anyway, I am hijacking a little bit here.
I will try to keep up with your sitch. It sounds like we are much alike too! Can I ask your ages? I might have missed that but just curious.

I am 34, h is 36, d is 6. Dog is 10 (hee hee)

Could you clarify your question a bit more for me? Replicated below.....

"Anyway, I am confused about one thing. At what point this went from you being done and him begging to come back, to you wanting him to come home and him wanting to do his own thing? "

Some of my most unfavourite things to hear from him (habitually)
"Fine"
"whatever"
"if you want"
"it's up to you"
"we'll see"


Grrrr

Mini vent

Casey,

I hope you'll forgive me for saying this, but your H sounds like a creep. I know that's not productive or helpful at all, but I think he deserves a little name calling. Even in some of the worst cases here, I don't get the vibe that I do from your sitch. If you're mentally and emotionally prepared for the potential outcome, do it. Go dark. Be sure before you do. But I'm just not sure he can be reached with standard DB techniques. It seems to me that most people here have what they believe to be a solid foundation. It looks like your foundation is broken.

Tell me, Casey...What makes you want to save your M at all? I don't mean that sarcastically; it's a real question. I know you want what's best for your d, but what else is there? If you didn't have a d, would there be anything there for you?

What do you love? Do you love the person, or do you love the comfort of your life and the idea of your H? Is there anything there for YOU?

Please think about those things. Make a list of all the reasons you want to fix your M. Then wait a day and re-read it. See how many of those things involve the love between you and you H. You may find lots of things and lots of reasons. Or you may find hardly any at all. But if there's nothing between you and H and you feel like you don't have much to lose, then I say go dark. Ideally, it would wake him up to reality and he would become willing to make some changes, but you must be prepared for the worst.

EAA

EAA,

Ouch. That hurt. Does he really? No, don't answer that. I'm sure if you heard his point of view you wouldn't think that. It does take two to tango.

I'm sorta going dark grey. If he calls I'll talk to him. I need to try and be upbeat. I have a free microwave from one of the managers at work if he needs it when he finds a place. I left him a message yesterday to tell him I had it at work.

He rang just before noon today but I had my mobile on vibrate so I didn't hear it. Besides which I was talking to my mum on the phone while I did housework (for some reason I get so much more done while I'm talking on the phone). I didn't realise he'd called till about 1.30pm so I rang back. He didn't answer so I left a message hopefully sounding chipper and let him know what I was doing with d (and her friend who is sleeping over) for the rest of the day. He rarely leaves messages, just calls. He generally will only leave a message if it's really important or if he's pissed that I'm not answering his calls.

a 180 for me is to not return his calls as soon as I can.

I think as much as I tell myself that I love him, this is not a healthy relationship. I need to love myself first. I think I thought I couldn't get any better than him and I put up with a lot of crap that I should have stood up to.

I really feel like I'm flip flopping all over the place. Today, I am done with our marriage. It's too hard. We are better off going back to friends stage (after a period of no contact).

*sigh*

What do other people think?

Ok....probably time for an update.

Thursday he calls me and asks if he can stay the night because where he is staying was doing something with their house and there was no room (?) for him that night.

I said yes. Pointed out that he would need to stay in the spare room. He appeared fine with that. He reminded me that he doesn't finish work till 9pm on Thurs and that he wasn't sure what time he'd be here as he had some report to write but that he'd try and get here as quickly as he could. I took it as read that he would be reasonably late and my 180 was to not stress about what time he would be here and what I would be doing when he did get here.

Later in the day I rang him to ask him if he wanted a free microwave that I knew someone wanted to get rid of. He said he wasn't sure if he needed one as he has put his name down for two places, one which was furnished, and the other that was unfurnished. He thanked me for the offer and I took it that he accepted the microwave. (I now have it sitting at workready to go). I also got up the courage to point out that I wasn't overly keen (can't remember how I actually said it) on him saying that if he ended up with a place that didn't have a room for d that he would probably just come to the house on the nights he looks after her. His first reaction was "oh yeah, cos if you bring someone home". *roll the eyes*. I said "no that's not the main reason" and explained that I was keen to be able to go out and return without having to extricate myself from d every time I leave the house. Plus I pointed out, I might not always want to go out, what if I just wanted to stay in and watch DVD's. I was worried that he would just say, well we could watch them together, but he didn't. Additionally, and I don't think I said this to him - I don't think it's fair like Neph(?) said that he gets to see what I'm up to (by being in the house) yet his private life will remain very private, unless he specifically invites me there. At the end of it, he said he could understand where I was coming from (I hope!) so I hope he keeps that in mind.

BThursday night I had to take d late night shopping for a couple of things. I called h before we left and even though I had said to him later in the day that I wasn't cooking I had looked in the fridge and saw there was plenty of leftovers so I rang to let him know he could have leftovers if he wanted and so he didn't have to buy anything. It was my way of being nice though I worried that I'd have to heat it all up for him and bring it out to him becuase he seems to not want to get into the fridge on his own (this irritates me cos I'd like for him to actually look after himself adn not expect me to wait on him) d and I got home at 8pm. Got her into bed and fell asleep with her.

Heard the front door open but don't know what time it was. I didn't bother getting up and fell back to sleep. Do you guys think that was rude or good DB'ing?

When I did eventually get up it was about 11pm and he was asleep on the couch covered with the blanket. He had brought home some sandwiches leftover from the cafe at his work so I put them in the fridge. I tried to wake him by shaking his foot but it didn't really work so I sat down at the computer. He woke up then and I asked him if he had eaten (I didn't really want to wait on him hand and foot. I don't think he knows how much that shits me) and he replied that he was going to eat the sandwiches that he had bought. I told him I'd put them in the fridge and he lay back down again. I suggested that he go to the spare room but he sorta shrugged it off and said he was fine where he was (in a mumbling, not fully awake sort of way). He then mumbled something about that he'd rather come to our bed or something along those lines (wtf???). but I didn't respond to that. As I was leaving the room someone rang him and he was talking to them. It bugs me that he keeps his phone on his person all the time now (I have told him I have snooped in the past). This says to me that he feels guilty about who he is talking to and has something to hide (not that I should care now!).

So I went to bed and read for a bit.

His alarm went off at 4.30am and he got up and had a shower and left for work. I fell back to sleep once I realised he was in the shower and didn't hear him leave.

d was upset when she woke up becuase I had forgotten to give him something she had made so I rang him and asked if I could bring her up to give it to him. Plus he had left the sandwiches behind and I thought I would be nice and bring them up to him. I got the eternal "if you want" and "if you think you'll have time before you have to be at work" (btw I knew it would make me late but I thought it was important to make sure d got to see her dad). So I took her up there, she got to give her dad her pressie and gave him some cuddles, he was pleased to see her. I stood back and passed on his sandwiches. I asked him that if he wanted to hang with us tomorrow (Sat) he could (he had asked if he could before, and though I hadn't said no, I did tell him I was looking after one of d's friends while her parents were away for the night - he seemed disappointed when I first told him and said he missed us and wanted to spend time with me. (I can't understand where he's coming from - it's like he wants to make up for hurting me and spend nice time together - I'm not keen to encourage him becuase in the past it has just led to the dynamic of us shagging again and then I think we are back on and who knows what he is thinking. Bottom line is, from my point of view it smacks of cake eating at worst and at best he seems like he doesn't really know how to interact with me in a way other than that of an intimate relationship. It's soooo frustrating. Can't he see that I need space? I have told him I'm hurting. It's like he knows all the right things to say, but when it comes to follow through...oh dear...sorry, 1001 excuses that all sound soooo valid and I feel like I would be unreasonable to get shirty.

Anyway, he was a bit standoffish with me and tried to neutrally say that as far as spending time with us on SAt arvo that "it's cool. You do your own thing". I'm pleased about that but wonder if it's a 180 on his part.

He didn't call me at all Friday. I rang and left him a message to let him know I had taken delivery of the microwave.

Saturday d had a b'day party at 10.30 -12.30. I had my mobile on vibrate so didn't notice when he called at 11.50am. Didn't leave a message. I tried calling back but he didn't answer so I just left what I hoped was an upbeat message about what I was doing with d and her friend.

Took the girls to the movies and rented a DVD. Girls had takeaway for dinner and they have just gotten out of the bath.

I've been on here just about all day, checking updates and trying to find others who are in similar sitches to me.

I have a feeling of peace that this is the start of a new life for me. How do I let h know that without him feeling like I've just brushed him off? I do care about him, I do love him. I just don't like the pathetic person I have become when around him. Always wondering what he is thinking etc. I want to open a new chapter of my life but whilst I don't want to get drawn back into dramatics with h I don't want to ignore him totally (but I feel I need to ignore him/GAL/LRT/go dark) in order to avoid possible dramatics. Am I making any sense???

Leedle bump....

Hi, Casey.

First, stop caretaking. You call him way too much, I think. You say you want space. So stop initiating. Really. Staying in bed when he got home was good. Getting up and shaking his leg--not so good. Re-read your post and take a look at your role in creating the dramatics you are trying to avoid. This is where you have control to make changes-with yourself.

The purpose of DB is not to ignore him. You want to GAL so that you can feel good about yourself and not obsess about what he is doing or who he is talking to. It is also to build your self-confidence so that you do not feel "pathetic" around him, because you are not. You are a loving person who has obviously taken the role of caretaker to your H. Trust me, I've been there, and I struggle every time H is here. I too end up waiting on him, and trying to take care of him, offer him furniture in case he gets his own place (which obviously isn't happening as he is all cushy with OW). This is tricky. My H considers my offering of food and other things as pursuing. It sends him running. If, however, I have food out and he goes snooping in the kitchen asking about things, I tell him he is welcome to it. He seems to appreciate this.

It really is helpful to keep a journal of techniques you try and the resonse you get. Then you can take stock and see what is and isn't working for you and your H.

Stay goal focused. Remember what you are trying to accomplish, and ask yourself, when making decisions, "Is this likely to help me reach my goal or take me farther from it."

If you do not feel comfortable being intimate, then this is a reasonable boundary to set. It should be done without malice. Remember, your goal is to save your marriage and eventually make it better than it was before.

Thanks, btw, for stopping by my thread. I have been struggling a lot this week. I really appreciate your support I really did print that quote and post it in my apartment.

Casey,

The reason I say he's a creep, is because, judging by what I've read, he's a master at playing games to get his way. It doesn't mean that he's a bad person all-around, I'm just speaking of his behavior in your M, from what I've seen.

I'm not a professional, but it looks to me like he has you locked into the "abuse victim" behavior. Very similar to when a man beats his W, yet she stays and always believes his empty promises...Sometimes even convincing herself that she deserves to be beaten. I'm not trying to suggest that he's abusive, but he seems to have complete control over your thoughts and emotions. This is a game that I've seen many guys play. You previously mentioned that you "needed" him. He knows this. He also thinks you "need" him. And he uses that to get his way and to place you in an inferior position. It's quite possible that he doesn't even see that he's doing it. I know that I placed my W into an inferior role. I had to have it pointed out to me because I couldn't see it on my own. And I think that's very common with guys, to varying degrees. We tend to think very highly of abilities.

Anyway, your remedy has to come from you. He has changes to make too, but he won't unless you give him a good reason to do so. Your post says, "I do care about him, I do love him. I just don't like the pathetic person I have become when around him." You see? You talk about the pathetic person YOU have become.

You see, guys generally enjoy being "needed". It's sort of a power trip. The more you need him, the more power he has, and the further he will push his boundries. I call him a creep because, over time, he has stretched those boundries way too far. To the point that he has basically told you that he wants to have sex with you and be your friend, but nothing else. Cake eating.

So you have to show him that you don't need him. You don't need anyone. You're strong, you're smart and you can do it yourself. Your preference is to stay with your H, but it should not be a need.

Do you see and individual counselor? I would highly recommend it. It seems to me that you have very low self-esteem and self-worth. And there's no reason you should.

Am I making sense? Not immediately returning phone calls is a good place to start. However, until you believe in yourself, he won't believe in you either.

EAA

Bleck bleck bleckity bleck.

I screwed up last night.

I had my first game of water polo last night so I organised a babysitter w/out telling h. He went off at me when he went to the house and found the babysitter there. He called me as I was leaving water polo and said "we need to talk".

got home, paid babysitter, took my lecture from h trying to use Db'ing techniques by agreeing with him that it was very rude of me not to let him no, I'm sorry, I made a mistake...tried to explain matter of factly that the reason I didn't bother calling him was becuase I knew he didn't finish work till at least 6.30pm (and possibly later depending if he had booked individual clients in for a training session) and I needed to have already left home by that time. Underlying reason is that I just didn't want to have to deal with him.

He says I'm shutting him out (yes...I am - I don't feel comfortable with him around) and I must let him know about anything to do with d, as in who is looking after her etc.

Fair nuff....I screwed up. I apologised. I don't know how long he will be pissed at me about it for. We are both sending mixed messages to each other. I just want some space for a little while to get strong and be able to deal with him.

A heap of other things have happened since he dropped the bomb the other week which I'll have to try to explain but we have joint counselling today (he asked last night if we were still having the session today in a manner that plainly said "well seeing as how you are being so cold to me, I'm sure you don't really want to go to counselling any more".

I'm just trying to detach. Not succeeding too well. I have ML with him twice since the bomb (on his initiation) as he still wants to be "intimate friends" and I'm still the only one that can make him that horny. the thing is, I've tried to say no...but I don't follow through on my actions enough. I resist a little say no...but don't want to upset him so I give in. I don't know how to handle the guilt when I reject him.

Casey, just checking back in. You are doing okay, take a deep breath and relax.
Mix signals abound, because you are both so unclear on what you want. YOu need to decide for yourself what you want and set goals to accomplish this. If it is space and time, ask for it. Try to start putting more focus on you adn d and not so much H. It is extremely hard and it goes back and forth day to day, but figure out what is in your best interest and move that direction. You can do this, quite being the caretaker. Guilty as charged on this end, I need to stop some of this too.