Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums We're separated--What Now? impossible situation #2

Hmm.
i see that line, to mean:

We have to feel grateful in receiving undeserved forgiveness, to really feel the depths of love for us.

But it also has an unstated prerequisite: We have to first actually acknowlege that we have done something WRONG, to be forgiven from.

sigh...

It is beyond frustrating. I think that as the years went on with me at least, I subconciously let her do more and more, because of the constant beatdowns. I admit, that although I was a good provider, and took care of the "outside of the house", I did not originally put as much effort into it as I did after marriage counseling 1n 2003. She DID make most of the family decisios, and I think she got tired of it. Got it.

But when you lead, and are always given a 15 point critique list, you say "UNCLE". You will get the advice: "Ask her if she wants to be in charge or does she want you to be in charge, If you want me to make decisions, let me"

Guess what: IT WILL HAVE NO IMPACT EXCEPT IT WILL MAKE HER MORE ANGRY, right?


Here's a case in point:

Last Christmas Eve, we had the same friends at our home that we've had for the past 20 years. Their kids and ours are great friends. My wife, as usual, put on a great meal. I always have done the cleaning up of the dishes. During meal preparation, I would clean and put away as she cooked.

Halfway through the meal prep, the 4 adults were in the kitchen, along with my D15. W SCREAMS in an angry manner: "Where's the micrograter?". D15 and I look at each other. We've never heard of a micrgrater. She screams it again... "WHERE's THE MICROGRATER!!! THIS IS MY KITCHEN, AND IT'S NOT WHERE I WANT IT" This time the other adults look at me nervously laughing, looking at their feet, avoiding eye contact....they know her. Her friend told me: "She always leads her life at a 12 on a 10 point emotional scale". hER FRIEND TOLD ME i WAS AN ABUSED SPOUSE WHO REFUSED TO LEAVE!

After D15 asks: "What's a micrograter?"

W. finally composes herself enought to explain that it is a small cheese grater. I said: "Here it is...in this side cabinet" where I had washed it and put it away. She was furious. Scowl on her face, angry motions for the next 20 minutes. Never an explanation or an embarrassed moment. D15 looks at me with a WTF? look.

Sound familiar, Dom? I bet you have 20 of these stories yourself. It was MY fault because: 1. I was breathing 2. I had no idea WTF a micrograter was; and of course 3. I had the audacity to wash it and put it in the wrong place.

I can amuse you with more of these, and may in the coming days, but you KNOW of what I speak.

Bottom line: You're never going to make her happy. Period. Until and if she ever figures out her own insecurities about being angry and never saying she's sorry, and what got her here. It most likely will not change. I'm sorry, but I leive it like you do. Never being vulnerable is such a turnoff, as is totally being emotional all the time. It's exhausting!!

Hi DomR,

Well, I have to ask something here that is about the same as I asked last time. Why would you want her back? Let's be honest here. If she is at this age and has not changed, do you really think she ever will? I have known people like her that stay that way their entire life....b/c they want to be that way, Dom. They like being that way! They don't want to change and you are crazy for sitting around hanging your head hoping that she will. She isn't going to change for you, her children or even herself. Get it? She likes being the way she is! She can call it control or whatever.....and she can "blame" you until the cows come home, but she ain't a gonna change one thing about herself! You need to forget it and go on living. No.....I mean you need to start living b/c you sure aren't now! I respect the way you feel and believe in M.....I really do, but sweetie some people are hopeless and I think you've got one gal that is never going to forgive you or anyone else in her life that she thinks she can keep dangling while she pulls the puppet strings. You aren't living Dom! You spend your life sitting here in front of your computer reading all these threads night after night. As much as we appreciate your feedback to our posts.....you really need to do something else in your life. It breaks my heart that you are wasting away your life waiting around to see what kind of "mood" she is going to be in or if she will drop you a crumb from time to time. That is not a life! Yes, I can understand setting a role model for your kids, but my gosh, they will have a life of their own and believe me.....whether you stay legally M to your W or not.....is not going to determine if they stay M or not. I think you are using that as an excuse. My D has been divorced three times and her dad and I have been married 42 years in December. Did it keep her from divorcing? Nope. All her grandparents were M for many years and never any of them D. On the other hand, you can take other people that come from D homes that stay together forever.

It's time to move on DomR. You need to get a life, sweetie! Can you really say she is worth it? How and why would you want to live with somebody who could/would never forgive somebody? That is not saying much for her except she is very self-centered and will be a hateful and very bitter old woman some day that nobody can stand to be around.

Thank you for the encouragement

I was actually doing the "get a life" thing a bit more strongly a month ago. I may get back to it in the near future.
I've definately been spending too much time online here in the past week or two.

i still do "me" things... but lately, they've all been at-home type stuffs.


FYI, back on the "she'll never change" topic: SOMETIMES... she changes things about herself. Little things, in a way... and yet still noticable.
I dont remember exactly what it was any more, but there were a few things, that I finally came out and told her, "look, when you do this, it REALLY bothers me, and it isnt fair that you do this. is it?"

The interesting thing is.. I dont think she ever apologised. or said "you are right" when I confronted her. BUT... she changed her behaviour!



PS: Another reason I'm still hanging in here, is because we still end up having sex 1-2 times a month I particularly enjoyed something we tried out on our trip a few weeks ago.. seemed like she did too
At one point, (while being separated) it was once a week!
If we could get back to that, and i could feel confident that she was not going and screwing other people, [whether in RL or online] I could almost live like this indefinately, if it was just about me.
But it's not just about me. it's about our children having to deal with a broken home.

Ironically, our children are probably part of the reason she DOESNT want to change things, even though she would never admit it. Right now, she gets 2-3 evenings a week that are completely child-free, so she can just veg out and play games without interruption. Plus, when she has them, her mother is right there to lessen the load!
In some ways, the current situation is less stressful to her from a child minding standpoint, than if we lived together again.

That isnt exactly putting our children's best interests first, though, is it? (something she always claims to do).
sigh.

PS: clarification: I dont believe that staying "separated but legally married" is particularly good for our children's future marriages. Their parents reconciling, and actively working to repair and maintain their marriage, is what is beneficial for them in that reguard

PPS: it was "her weekend" with our children today, but, at the request of one of our sons, we did a little "play in the park" thing together today in the morning. was nice.

Hmm...did she see you actually work out and resolve your marital problems? Or did she know how unhappy you were, and perhaps thought to herself, "getting divorced, has to be better than how mom and dad are now"?

Dom,

I think it's great that you were successful in getting her to change her behavior. My husband is also not an apologizer. He is the brainiac type and always did well on tests. So being wrong is something he doesn't like to be. The apology is not the most important thing. The change in behavior is. So if you have a nice way of pointing something out and getting the change, more power to you. I think you are exactly right that separated is easier for taking care of the kids. I've always thought that was a major reason people broke up their marriages.

Well, actually I was not really encouraging you, but just telling it like I saw it.

Those on line games....I did not realize that she had gotten off into an EA on line. Gee, that is how it started for me was chatting while playing those games. Let that be a warning to others that may read this.....it can be a snare.

As far as the two of you having sex....still....you sly dog...I should have known there was some reason that you were hanging in there. The kids, my eye! And, yes my kids saw us over the years go through difficult times....they may not have known the problems, but they knew there were times that I was not happy. In fact they both made the statement a few years ago that when they were growing up that they did not think we loved each other. That was distrubing. I thought, "So, I have stayed in this all these years, for this?" So, the kids could detect something a long time ago. We just thought we were keeping it covered up.

Anyway, it is your life and it's up to you to decide how long you want to carry the tourch. I just don't think I could live like that.....sex or no sex. In fact.....well, no point of going down that tunnel....obviously nobody apparently agrees with me about that.....but I still wouldn't do it. But tell me something. How can you make love to somebody knowing how they feel about you? Doesn't it bother you? That's what I don't get about some of the wives. Their H's are sleeping with OW and yet they continue to have sex with them. Oh well......

Well, hope you find something interesting to do this week. Have any ideas?

Sex can be something other than making love. It can be fun, entertainment, stress release, etc. Even in the worst of times, my husband and I had sex with each other. Why not? I think it's great that you both enjoy sex with each other. Maybe you could find ways to encourage it to happen more frequently. I've started buying very sexy lingerie that gets us both excited. Maybe you could give her little gifts that would put her in the mood.

sandi: I know she cares about me to some degree. So, the question of "how can I do that knowing how she feels about me..." is a little murky.
If I KNEW she was having sex with someone else, it would be a lot different.

[PS: when she moved out, it was all "I'm going to divorce you" hatred. there was no sex or anything close, for at least...
6 months?]


sara: i would LOVE to make it more... erm... blatant?
I think we could have even more fun than we already do.

Thing is... we never (either of us) say, "we're going to have sex". It just kinda "Happens". It's very much just a hormonal release thing (at least for her). She wont kiss me.

I think it could be a whole lot of extra fun, if my dear W would be up front about "ok, yes we're separated, but sex between us is fun, so we're going to keep doing it".

Trouble is... I know she doesnt want to do that. In fact, some times, she gets very anxious/regretful afterwards. She goes into "I'm not sure i'm comfortable with this" mode sometimes.

So, unfortunately, we're not at the "acknowlege we have sex" point. I am frequently on the "i wonder if we're going to have sex again" point.

It's too bad, really. 'cause I still very much enjoy being intimate with her. And on a physical level, she seems to appreciate that I still know how to "press her buttons"

She's a real stress puppy, too... she could definately use a more regular stress relief!

Hmm.. what kind of little gifts, would put a woman in the mood for sex?