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that's all encapsulated in the "I don't get it" statement

OT,
Not trying to minimize the damage of what I did. There are very, very few things I would sincerely wish to go back in time and correct -- that would be top of list. Hard to describe how hurting someone you love like that made me feel. Makes me feel. And I have tried to forgive myself for it. I feel like I did just snap in a way I don't think I ever would again -- unless someone I loved were in danger, I think something similar would happen.

Interesting in comparing violations though. Lying about your feelings, telling the man you know loves you that you've been [censored] another man in your bed, that he's your soulmate, that you're not good enough -- those leave some pretty gaping wounds as well. Are they even, probably not. My stepdad, while never physically abusive, was a large, imposing man. And a first rate a-hole. I know what it's like to feel helpless and powerless. I hate having done that to my W. Note, I don't hate myself. What's that phrase, hate the sin, love the sinner?

Looking into counceling for a few things. This is something I've thought of bringing up as well.

You posted while I was posting:
I feel ok with where I am vis a vis that night and trying to make the R work from Oct through April. I'm at peace with myself for the first time in a few years. I wish I had known more, but my W was resistant to books, so I set them aside and thought we could do this on our own. Should have pushed forward with what I sensed would work best for us.

I think I'll always feel shame for that. Am I self-sabotauging? Don't think so. Think the answer is simpler -- I allow my emotions to go into knee-jerk reaction mode.

I'll try the apology book and throw it on the ol' pile o' relationship books to plow through.

Best,

BD

I think the apology book sound well worth the time too -- I'm gonna get it, myself.

GD

Hey Heim,



How about the book on forgiveness? I know it's hard when you're still in the thick of it, and perhaps W hasn't forgiven you, either. But you're either going to forgive her or you're not, regardless of what she does. How can you move forward on your own until you do?



Until you forgive her, that resentment will pop up every time you go into knee-jerk mode and you two will keep on playing tug of war. Like you've told me: drop the rope.

Take care.

Puddle,
Sorry for the confusion. Those were the thoughts running through my head that night just over a year ago. I've long since forgiven her and moved on. Sure, still get a pang if I think about it, but I've truly moved on from that aspect of things.

Remember, we tried from Oct to April. I was subsconciously blaming her for the problems in our relationship, but I had decided to trust her and to forgive her for the A.

I think the key is that W hasn't forgiven me, I didn't really give her a reason to love me for a while, and I don't think she's forgiven herself for what she did or fully think about her role in our marriage's failure. In many ways, I think she blames me, which I obviously think is totally unfair, but there you are.

Knee-jerk reaction is all of the stuff I keep doing. It is separate from any of the A stuff a year ago.

BD

Hey Heim,



Doesn't sound like you've "truly moved on from that aspect of things." Doesn't sound like "I kind of snapped a bit." Heim, it's still there. Can you not see it?

Maybe you were subconsciously blaming her from Oct to April, but you're either consciously or unconsciously blaming her now, too.

I'm going to speak freely now, so take it FWIW. You know what? I think if W were to change her mind right now, you'd be doomed. You haven't forgiven her, she hasn't forgiven you. She screwed you big-time, and you screwed her right back. She doesn't trust you: You can't even keep from bringing it up. How can you be over it? You snooped through her pantie drawer not one month ago. And then you couldn't keep from asking her about it. You didn't intend to, you didn't mean to, you thought about it and realized it would be a bad idea, but you did it anyway.

You've moved out, you're moving on, but you haven't let go---of the hurt, of the pain, of what she did to you (maybe what you did to her, I don't know). You've got to get a grip on this stuff, Heim, or all the distance in the world isn't going to stand you in good stead for your next R. You'll take it with you.

I say all this with a big ((((Heim)))). You're so smart, you're so funny. I want to give you a big hug and then a bang on the ear.

Take care.

Thanks, Puddle, but, really, I've let the A go. Yes, it hurts. I'll never understand how she "pulled the trigger." However, I understand how she got to that point. I know that I sound contradictory in some of my posts, but it's over. I'd be lying if I said I don't think about it ever, but I rarely thought about it for months. It was only finding that she had been calling him that brought it all back -- yet the forgiveness was still there. Can't one be angry at another betrayal, understand why it happened, and forgive the original transgression at the same time?

Believe me, this is not something that's affecting my behavior towards my W (ex?). Today. The last two weeks, yes. It knocked me sideways for a bit.

I don't go throughout my day thinking "My W dicked me over." (anymore ) I've a quick temper, at times, when she touched on "I felt violated at you going to the house" all of that stuff just boiled to the surface. I don't carry it with me daily though.

If I feel anything towards my wife it's frustration and disappointment. I thought that she was better than this.

I mentioned her seeing him a lot over the summer to try to force a decision in my own mind. If she was seeing him, I'm done. She's been steadfast in denying any R with him. Whatever. I also realized that it didn't matter. If she decided to come back, I'd be willing. How long that willingness is going to last . . . . anyone's guess at this point. I know that some day I'm going to wake up and, other than a vague feeling of fondness, any desire for love and intimacy from her is going to be dead.

Thanks, Puddle. The only thing I blame my W for right now is seeing me becoming a better person and still not being interested in trying. And, really, and I've typed this before, I didn't give her a reason for a while to think that I could or would change, so I don't even really blame her. More blame myself.

I'm getting to OK again though. Lots of thinking still to do, but I'm better than I've been in a long time.



I could use both.
BD

Whoa, wait what happened. What did I miss? I know I am a skim reader, but did I miss something somewhere? I have my rawhide gloves on and I am waxing the 2X4, but I can't seem to find what happened.

LOL. Dude, made me laugh. Nothing much has happened beyond what I mentioned in the first post of this thread. The rest is stuff and emotions I've been dealing with since my W told be about the A last Oct.

You're still up to speed, my man.

BD

Ah pheeew. I thought I missed out on a good ol ass whooping. Since I can't/don't take out me aggressions on my W, I got to do it somewhere. JK!

Here's an overview of the Apology book. If you take the quiz, when you click on your apology style it takes you to a description of the apology language that is a bit longer than the pop-up description that shows when you just mouse over it...

http://www.fivelanguagesofapology.com/

FWIW, this book is a lot like 5LL -- the style drives me crazy, but the basic message is incredibly useful.