Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums THE SEX-STARVED MARRIAGE Monkey on a string

A monkey on a string. That's me.

I've been a good father and husband. Married for 27 years. That's the good part. here is the bad part.

I have spent the last 10+ years mostly sleeping alone. Sex at best is once a month, and lately, it is very good monthly sex. Maximum effort being once a month, normal efforts resulting in sex every three to six months.

My drive is just a wee bit different. Early days of our relationship, daily is ok, 2+ times a day better. I am not some sexual addict, I just love to do it. In the early days of our relationship, we did it mostly every day. That
was a good compromise I thought.

Constant rejection of sexual advances.
"I'm just not interested."
"We just can't get our timing down"
"If you can treat me just right all day, and catch me in the right mood between 5:30 and 5:45, we might do it".
"I just ate, you know I don't feel sexy after I eat".
"I don't feel good about myself right now. I need to lose some weight"

And after a famous day of doing everything just right, "Maybe tomorrow" as she drifts off to sleep on the couch. That one has happened so many times I can't count them.

Most tactics for avoidance involve sleep. Pass out on the couch at 7:30pm. Wake up at 3:00am, read news groups for a while, back off to sleep at 5:00am.
It is my fault that I didn't get interested in her at an hour that she might be intertested in me. It is also amazing that the only time she might be interested is around 6:00pm, my absolute bottom of the day. It only lasts for an hour or so, but we all have some time of day when we are really slagged. Even if I decided to try at 6:00, some new rejection would loom.

I have got to be the biggest smuck on the planet. Mr Smart, all tied neatly to a string. Sure, I waive my arms about wildly, climb the walls, scream, masturbate, basically go ape-sh*t , but I am still tied to that damn string.
Time to cut free and salvage what few years I have left.

Bottom line;
She does NOT love me. Regardless of the claim.
I have been an utter fool and wasted many years of my life in a loveless relationship, doing "the right thing".

God how I hate being a putz. Logic is my favorite pastime, and I have still been conned and played for a fool. I hate myself for that.

Oh, don't think we haven't talked about it. I am insane from thinking about it. WE have talked about it so many times. There is never any resolution. I have tried for a decade to stick this out, but I would have to be a fool to
continue. There is NO "other woman". There is no time or opportunity for that. If there was, I would probably have awakened long ago from this nightmare. There are worse relationships. Ours has been dilligent, forthright (in all aspects except sex), kind and non-abusive. I love my
wife. I love her very much. She is the ONLY woman I have ever loved. She is also driving me insane. She obviously does NOT love me. I wish she did. If she does, then she is either unwilling, or unable to make any changes. Obviously, if that is true, then I am an idiot for wasting even one more minute trying to repair the unrepairable.

Please don't fixate on me worrying about how people perceive me. I am conscious of many things, but I really don't mind being a temporary "fool for love". In fact, I have been just that on many occasions, and for an extended period of time. I am really sure that I don't have any such patience left. For a decade, I have tried to be sweet, attentive, ,etc. ad
nauseum. I did those things because I really do want to. What I get in return, is a peaceful wife sleeping happily on the couch. A well loved, and cared for person, while the arbitor of the happiness is seething inside with resentment. Since I am not a saint, this must be some insane obsession to put myself through this time and again.

All I ever wanted from our relationship was to be wanted. I don't care if the house is a mess, or if she gained a few pounds. We are now relatively well to do, even though we both still work very hard. Everything is paid for. At a time when we could enjoy some real peace together, I have run
completely out of patience. I may still be going ape-sh*t, but the string is getting loose and my activity level is no longer that of the newly captive...

I have read the book, she has read some of it. I am open for suggestions, or I wouldn't have posted. At this point in time, I have tried just about everything. Celibacy is NOT an option. I have been there, I am there. Why do people do this to each other? What a waste.

I understand. That's why I wrote this book. Since you write that your wife is reading it, I wonder what she'll think. I hope she develops more empathy and becomes more affectionate.

But in the mean time, you sound angry. Of course you're angry, I know that. But if your anger comes through during your discussions about sex, she will become defensive. I'm sure that has happened many, many times. What I'm not sure about is whether you've told her with an open heart, allowing yourself to really be vulnerable, what feeling rejected is like for you. Have you told her about what it's like to not feel wanted or loved? Has she seen your sadness and hurt? I know she's seen your anger and disappointment, but that's not what I'm talking about here.

Ask her if she's willing to discuss what she's read in the book. If she "writes it off" don't argue, just tell her that you feel disappointed and end the discussion. That will surprise her because she will expect you to attack her. Try this and keep posting.
Michele

Thanks for the response, Michele. It is really appreciated.

You are right, I am afraid my anger was leaking through a bit (maybe a lot) in my previous post. I had, in fact, started several messages with a lengthy explanation of our relationship, only to delete them as I wandered back and forth through my pain/hurt/anger. The post that made it, although somewhat incoherent, was composed toward the end of my five day "mad". That "mad" was the result of a very contrite discussion about some of the items discussed
in your book. I don't mean to imply that any of that is your fault, far from it. I withdrew when there was no apparent change after our "heart to heart" conversation.

As you are well aware, divides in a relationship can be very painful. In my case, I had to withdraw, to the point where I really couldn't even look her in the face. Hurt feelings will do that. I knew better than to have high hopes or expectations that life would somehow be better, that some
compromise or understanding could be reached immediately. I have stood on that precipice far too often. I should know better. The bad reaction is my fault.

Please don't misunderstand. My wife is a fine woman. Maybe she feels that any action would be contrived and wouldn't feel right somehow. Maybe she is waiting (likely in vain) for some feeling to emerge. Maybe she thinks that suggestions from a book are somehow less valid than lessons learned or knowledge gained from some other venue. I really have no idea what her reasons are. I can only guess. Even though in my previous post, I implied otherwise, I sincerely doubt there is any malicious under-current to her reasoning. I do think that her reasoning, however, remains flawed.

For what it's worth, I do appreciate your devotion to marriage. I enjoyed witnessing your intensity on The O`Reilly Factor. My wife sat quietly, intently watching. She stated that she wasn't suprised that I purchased your book as a result of your appearance on the program.

She knows we have a problem. The situation remains as it has been, in stalemate. There have been some minor improvements over the past few months, but as I stated in my previous post, those improvements have come with intense effort. I really don't know why she can't let me know that she wants
me. I know she cares. If on the other hand, she does understand my pain, and allows this to continue, then I see no choice but to re-evaluate my options.

I don't want to be a demanding ass. I don't really care about the quality of the sex. What I do care about, is wanting and being wanted. I can't tell you just how weird it is to be male and state the aforementioned simple truth.

There should be no issue regarding physical attraction. I am still fit, and the ladies still notice me in a crowd. As one of our female friends put it at a recent wedding reception - "Wow, you clean up really nice" :-)

I love my sweet wife very much. I am more in love with her now than when we married. I love her smile. I love to hear her voice. Sometimes sweetness simply exudes from her and is contagious to everyone around. She stole my heart many years ago and still has it.

I have been a "man's man" all my life, but eventually well tempered with kindness and an honest gentility, although it took a while to arrive there. Maybe it is the acknowledgement of vulnerability that she finds distasteful.

To reiterate, no matter how much I think about, discuss, and examine the situation, I still draw a blank on a true understanding...

Sometimes I really do think that an emotionless logical existence is preferable to dealing with feelings. Emotions and the results thereof are a complex mess. It is a wonder that anyone survives them.

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I can't tell you just how weird it is to be male and state the aforementioned simple truth.

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now try being an attractive young female in the same state and tell me how you'd feel!!

I hear ya NOPkins I really do!!

LL

I had to respond after I read your initial post. You see I am in a similar situation. My husband told me out of the blue that he was unhappy and no longer wanted to be married to me, that took place two months ago. I was in shock. I am 28 and he is 32, we will have been married for 3 years in May. Everyone always thought we were the perfect couple. No one, including myself ever realized how unhappy he was. He never told me, or shall I say he never told me in a way that I truly understood how serious the situation was. Our sex life has been lacking from the very beginning, I dont know why? I guess I just chalked it up the fact that I had low/no sex drive. I thought (foolishly) that my husband was okay with that and he understood. I love my husband more than anything in this world and it causes me pain to see how badly I have hurt him. Unfortunately, I now realize that after rejecting him time and time again he just stopped trying. Not to mention the fact that he started to feel unattractive, undesirable and unloved. The anger I saw on my husband's face the night he told me that he no longer loved me hurt me more than words could ever describe. He now blames me for all the problems we have ever had in our marriage. He said that he doesn't hate me but he can't even look at me anymore. Three weeks after my husband told me he was unhappy he filed for divorce and the big date is set for June 3rd. Three short months and our 6 year relationship together will be over. As soon as he told me that I was unhappy I immediately started counseling. (by myself) I have been reading every book that I can get my hands on. I have learned many things, one of them is that I do have a sex drive... unfortunately it was just burried somewhere very deep for a long long time. I am taking control of the only thing that I can, myself. I can't control my husband and I can't make him love me. Until the anger passes, I can't even talk to him about our relationship. To make things worse he is having an affair with a 23 year woman that he works with and claims he is happier than he has ever been. After I found out about the affair, I asked him to move out of our house. I haven't seen him in a month and we barely talk. Everything has been happening so quickly, my head is literally spinning. I don't know if I should keep hope alive or give up. My H has told me that he does not love me, he does not know why we ever got married and he doesn't remember any of the good times. I am currently doing the last resort technique although I'm not sure if it's working since I never see my H. There are a few small signs but I try not to read into them too much because I am afraid of false hope. My main point is I never meant to hurt my husband, I just didn't understand how important his needs were. I'm sure I sound foolish, I mean how blind or selfish could I be? I am in love with him and I do find him attractive, I don't know why I couldn't show him sooner. I'm not saying that this is how your wife feels but sometimes I think we are so blinded by our own fears and feelings we get lost. It is possible for your wife to realize these things if she truly understands that your marriage is in serious jeapordy. I don't know if this makes sense or if I've been rambling...I apologize this is my first time posting and I am a bit nervous. I've been checking out the sight for weeks and it has brought me great comfort as well as hope. Please know you are in my thoughts, try not to give up on your wife just yet.

Thank you for your kind words.

I am sorry that your situation is so hard. I can't imagine how badly you are hurt. I surely don't want to know first hand. I wish your husband could have had a fight, yelled, screamed, pleaded or done something about the issue that was driving him crazy. As it is, you probably had no clue. I can
believe that now, having read Michele's book. I know guys are dense when it comes to understanding female emotion. Hell, we can't even understand our own. Before listening/reading what she had to say regarding sexual issues, I wouldn't have believed that a partner in a relationship, and I mention females here because the problems addressed in Michele's book do largely relate to the feminine side of a relationship (exceptions noted), could have been so blind regarding her husbands simple emotional needs. Unfortunately, as you have discovered, we males are emotionally ill-equipped to let you ladies know when our feelings are hurt. I can still hear "walk it off, son" or "give it some time, it will quit hurting" resonating through my brain. Guys are feed that type of advice from an early age.

This isn't an attack on you, but an observation of the opposite sex in general. As it has been recently derived, it is possibly in error. Regardless, here you have it:

I don't understand why women would have a problem with doing something she doesn't understand. Men do this all the time. Valentine's day, Anniversaries, other special occasions, etc. We go an buy flowers or candy or a ring or whatever, and it had best be a well executed gift. Well thought out and attractive, otherwise, the target of our affection is not pleased and might even doubt our sincerity. While I understand that there is some mix of amplitude and frequency in the above statement, it applies to most long term marriages of which I am familiar.

My point is simply this. Men are required, all their life, to do things that they don't necessarily "feel". In fact, they might think what they are doing is outright "dumb as a hammer". We don't believe that quite so strongly when we see her face light up and tears stream down her cheek at the pleasure of the moment. And for a moment, she might even be convinced that we really aren't uncaring coots. We really aren't, but we are operating outside of our sphere of understanding, so to speak. Regardless, we do very much like the results.


I thought you ladies understood this simple principle. Most men learn it at an early age, especially if they hope to ever be successful at any relationship. I know women understand sacrifice. Believe it or not, most men do as well, but the approach is for most, totally different from the feminine.

As for getting your husband back, my advice has to be completely suspect. I can tell you that I am genuinely sorry for your pain. I know pain, but I don't know how it feels to have someone walk away, or betray. I do hope that he returns to you and finds the person he needs there. I suspect that he already knows that you are the one he needs. He married you after all. Given time, his pain and anger will likely subside. A gentle action or word from you at that time may be all he needs to turn around, or at least offer an
attentive ear.

I can tell you this for certain - genuine kindness, regardless of the situation you find yourself in, is always noticed. Appreciation of that kindness may never be acknowledged, but the kindness never goes unnoticed. And this advice is good and true; always be kind, never respond in kind, unless it is to kindness.

I wish you the best possible outcome with your husband. For what it's worth, I don't think you are a bad or inattentive wife. I believe that the fault is shared. It is too bad that your situation couldn't have been the subject of much discussion before any potentially permanent action was taken. That is very sad indeed. These types of issues are obviously common in marriage. I suspect that Michele is correct in her statement regarding knowledge that we have lost about marriages and relationships. I hope her book will be a catalyst for change. The observations shared by her with her readers, should have been common knowledge, not something that had to be learned again, born out of pain and suffering.

No, dear lady, you are not a bad person. You are just human. We do learn from our mistakes. Unfortunately, it doesn't stick across generations very well. Evidently, we are doomed to make the same ones over and over.

I hope your husband comes home soon. He belongs with you.

Hi, LL.

I have read some of your other posts. I have admired them and you, very much.

In one of your posts, I recall something about questions as to why you "stick it out" when you are an attractive woman and the "field" is replete with fine specimens :-)

I know why you stick it out, and why I would only consider alternate possibilites if every other tolerable (even barely) option were exhausted.

When I was younger and unmarried, I had a female friend. Her sex drive and mine were very similar. She was understandably very selective with her partners. Back in the early seventies, a large sex drive could be a potential source of "large" problems. Over time, we started having sex together. She would call and want to see me, or I would call. Basically, it became a monogomous relationship that was a friendship, albeit with lots of sex. We took care of each others "needs" for the better part of 2 years. What ended the sexual part of the relationship was me meeting my future wife. Our friendship eventually waned since it was largely based on sexual needs.

My point is this. Sex is good and fun and an essential part of life for most of us. Sex with the one you love, your life partner, the love of your life, simply can't be replaced by sex of the casual variety. Period. Obviously, LL knows this and continues to persue her true love. I continue to persue mine.

I am inspired by your posts, LL. You go girl. Use a frying pan if you need to beat some sense into him.

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I am inspired by your posts, LL. You go girl. Use a frying pan if you need to beat some sense into him.

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now that would not be a 180 now would it??? (no no don't worry bout that)

I'm glad to hear you've read my threads...don't be afraid to chime in with any thoughts you might have.

I wonder though if I was simply the sex partner for h and this ow (who is married) was his true love..true friend etc but by the time he realized it he was already marrying me and she after all was already married.

I don't know...it's all to complicated...love life and marriage...ugh!!! I'm too young for all this stuff...I'm starting to feel old and I'm barely 30!!

LL

Your are very right, LL. Life is complicated.

Since I do have 17 years on you, I can tell you something that I have discovered. History, with someone that you love, is hard if not impossible to replace.

Your husband may be in or have had an affair. He may even be dumb enough to think that she fills some need. I will tell you this. When he awakes next to her, he doesn't see you, and chances are, he would rather see you. He would rather it be you. He probably doesn't know how to merge wants and needs into a cohesive form that he can present to you for fullfillment of your part of his self image. Women don't seem to have that problem. Their problem seems to be getting their spuses to notice that there is relational work to be done :-)

My wife and I are having some difficulty. I can't be sure of how it will resolve. I do know that we have history together. Lots of it. Trials and trouble, good times and plenty of bad ones. Heart breaks and joys. I strongly suspect that our problem will get resolved. My regret is that it has taken this long to even be identified. So much time wasted that we could have been building more history, bedroom history. On the other hand, what an exciting period of history building is ahead of us!

I have had plenty of opportunity to play. I have travelled widely over the years.

At least with my pre-marriage history, I had experienced what it is like to be a "player". I have to tell you, it is a pretty empty existence. Every guy wants to think he is the ultimate gift to women and completely irresistable.

Some guys (and girls) decide to test out their attractiveness during their marriage. There are a lot of reasons why. To feel good, to prove yourself, (insert your own list of reasons). Doing this in the middle of a relationship is not at all uncommon. What matters is what the spouse does in response. I have seen the responses in our friends run the full gambit. Everything from divorce to partner swapping resulted. Those that survived the "itch" basically shored each other up in their need to be "appreciated" for a lack of the proper term. Lest I be unclear, the partner swappers ended up divorced as well. It is not an option.

I suspect that your husband's needs are definable and addressable. When is the last time you got him all dressed up and showed him off? Or maybe talked about what a great lover he is in front of him, to your friends? Maybe he has a need to be "the stud" right now (even if he isn't). Guys have real emotional needs just like the ladies. Current media politically correct pressures tell marriages that we are all equal physically, spiritually and emotionally. While we are equal in rights as human beings, any grade schooler will tell you that the rest of that equality is total bunk. When is the last time he rescued you? Does he have a chance to be a "man" around you? It could be that what he really needs is actually pretty simple. Guys are like that for the most part.

Using myself for an example. I am a very complex man. Intelligent and demanding, with high standards and expectations. What I need from my wife is so simple (thanks, Michele). She needs to want me naked. I hate to admit it. A complex compelling argument outlined with thousands of words would seem to be more substantive. But the simple truth, I need her to need me - sexually. We really do have it down on most other relational fronts. I would bet that your husband needs something simple from you, just like you do from him. Do you know what it is? If not, I bet you can figure it out.

I don't know what to tell you, but from your posts that I have read, there is something there with your husband. If it is just history, that is something very real to build on.

Please don't take my questions personally. They are not personal. I don't know you, although you sound like a fascinating person and someone I would enjoy knowing.

I am no counselor, only an observer. It does seem to me that logic still applies, even where emotion is invlolved. Each of us needs to be appreciated for what we have to offer. Sincere appreciation is flattering, but not empty like flattery. Appreciation can build up an individual. An individual that is sure of his or her standing with another finds the truest form of security. Secure individuals can more readily take the risks inherent with loving, and being loved.

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you sound like a fascinating person and someone I would enjoy knowing.

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ok I'll have to come down off the high of hearing such a statement before I can respond to all the other very enlightening things you said.

LL