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yep, total pursuing, that. would have been better if you had just laughed and said, "I sure am!" and left it at that. but I understand why you responded the way you did.

its hard as hell, isn't it?

glad you had a good day with the boys. how does your 5 year old like transformers? mine is a bit of a weenie but is suddenly getting interested in them...he has a couple, but has never seen a show. I really think it would terrify him, so am holding back a bit.

Morgan,
I know, total pursuing. I'm sure that she thinks I'm a loser. She will call again tonight. So, I either need to avoid talking to her or stay strong. If I feel a weakness coming on, I should end the conversattion.

All three of my boys love transformers, including my now 6 year old. (Been her too long, need to update signature file) The movie was PG-13 and amazingly violent. My little one is used to watching movies that we would never have let our older boys watch at his age. They all loved it, but again, I wouldnt recommend it.

Dealing with kids and separation sucks not matter what, but you should feel fortunate that you dont have older kids who understand what is going on and are confused by it. What do you tell them?

I feel silly giving you advice, you probably could give ME better advice, but wanted to say hi.



This is what was working and will work. It will work in 2 ways: 1) Draw your wife closer and 2) Make you a stronger person, therefore will be fine either way, with or w/o wife, although we all want the 'with'.

We all know how pursuing makes us look, but I also am guilty of doing it. Little slips (that is what you have had, nothing horrible) are normal and we can recover from them. It sounds like she is scared to 'commit' to officially working things out, that's ok for now. I think things will look up for you guys, with detaching and some more patience.

I applaud you both for keeping your boys at home. Amazing.

PS: If she sees you as a 'loser', she is sooooo wrong.

Thanks lwb. I do understand that detaching and GAL is what I need to do and most of the time I can stay on course. Unfortunately, I seem to be the weakest when I am with her or talking to her. I seem to be drawn to the pursuit like a magnet. It's so stupid. In the moment though, I think that I ought to be able to reason her in to returning. It never works. Why cant I ever learn?

Yes she is scared to commit. She is having her cake and eating it to. She is clearly happy with the current situation and sometimes I wonder if she will ever commit to resolving this in either direction. The only thing that I can do is wait patiently or file for D (and I don’t want to do that).


I want to continue to remain patient, continue my own personal growth, and hope that she can see the man that I am becoming.

You cannot beat yourself up for that comment but it is like punishment. Think about it. She makes a positive comment and you immediatley punish her. Think about them like dogs who have run away. the more you chase them the harder they run. If they do get tired or hungry and come home you beat them for running away? They will remember that the next time they run away. Instead when they come back reward them with food and warmth and affection whatever. Don't chase them away. That is a huge turn off for a chick in any context. Even a single girl who just met a guy or someone in happy R. No woman wants to be with a dude who is guilting her. She is obviously attracted to the part of you that is a great dad, independent providr, supportive of her happiness. keep that up. Do not criticize her. Agree with her.

Oh I wish I knew. I do the same thing. Its so hard.

Thanks mk and lwb.
I like the dog analogy. Maybe I'll draw a picture of a dog on the back of my hand and look at it right before talking to her. It's hard for me to see things from her perspective. Honestly, she doesnt give me concrete reasons for wanting this separation. That might result in a conflict and she is a HUGE conflict avoider. But, can understand how it would turn her off to come to me with a compliment and I turn it around into guilt. hmmmmmm. I need to remember this moment. It's big.

Thanks again.

Meet with counselor today. He suggested that since what I have been doing has not produced the results that I am looking for, that I consider taking a pretty firm line with W. Basically, I should settle for nothing less than “I’m ready to work on our marriage”. So, if she suggests going to dinner under the condition that we avoid R talk, I should decline. If she says ILY, than I should say “That’s very nice for you to say that, but honestly I have no idea what that means.” If she suggests having the five of us together for Thanksgiving dinner, I should say no.

I’m not sure that I can do this. Any thoughts?