Thank you again. Your responses are truly helpful and I appreciate your genuine concern. Since you're basically looking at my situation from the perspective of my wife, I consider your advice to be extremely valuable.
MPT, I'm female and dealt with this problem in my marriage. I was the one with the higher sex drive though so I can see it from the other perspective plus put a female spin on it I think. You said that the low desired partner is bombarded by the fact that they are the one with the problem. I suppose us partners that are having to deal with the pain of rejection do feel that you guys are the problem. Not because you are less or defective but because we know the pleasures of sharing ourselves with the ones we love on a regular basis and feel that your "problem" stims from not being able to experience those same pleasures.
No one points fingers and says you are wrong for not wanting sex. What is being said is you are missing out on one of the great pleasures of life. I will be honest with you and tell you that I think your argument...I'm tired, I'm focused on the kids, my libido is lower than yours or any other excuse you can deal with is a cop out for not wanting to acknowledge that you might need to change your attitude or look into the fact that there could be a physical problem that is causing your lack of desire.
The desire for sex is a natural response to somoene you love. If you find yourself lacking sex wiht the one you love then there is something wrong. That does not make you less a person or bad but it should motivate you to find a solution to whatever it is that is causing the lack of desire.
I'm going to assume that when you said, "boring, messy, icky, tedious parts of life that you were referring to housework, child raising and such and not sex with your husband. God, I hope that isn't how you feel about sex with your husband. If it's housework and child issues and all that life hands us on a daily basis that gets in your way then maybe you might try prioritizing and letting go of someo of those things in favor of putting energy into feeling closer to your husband. If that is the way you feel about sex then a change of attitude might help...sometimes, icky and messy can be fun!
You say the best sales people find out what motivates their customer. I've done a little marketing myself and have learned that if a customer isn't motivated to buy my product then no matter what sales pitch I give them they are not going to be interested. I'm not sure though that sex should be compared to trying to motivate a customer. As a husband or wife we have a right to expect our spouse to be attracted to us or at least concerned and caring enough about us to want to share intimacy with us. 1 Corinthians 7:3 says "the husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband." As children of God we do have a duty or obligation to give what is needed by the other spouse and we have a right to expect the same in return.
This is the bottom line....If for some reason you find that your desire differs from that of your spouse and in such a way that it causes you to withdraw from them in a sexual way then you are the one with the problem. The spouse who wishes to share that part of themselves with their spouse is only wanting what was vowed to him/her on the day they married. To tell that person they are being unreasonable about their expectations is demeaning, dismissive and shows a lack of love and caring for the feelings of the person you swore to love and honor.
Yes, if a spouse longs for a kiss he should fully expect that his wife would be willing to kiss him. If he is a respectful, loving husband then she is OBLIGATED to share herself with him sexually and if she lacks the desire she is OBLIGATED to take responsibility for the hurt and problems it causes. To feel otherwise would mean breaking the vows she took with him. Cathy
Why is it that the low libido people seem to hook up with the high libido people? How much more enjoyable my marriage would be if my W had your drive (and attitude)...
Sooner, I can empathize with your perspective because I have been there. I know the pain you speak of and the depression it causes. I lived this kind of marriage for 13 years and by the time it was over I was in a clinical depression, suffering from panic attacks and had no self-esteem.
I did all the things you are doing. I thought if I were prettier, didn't talk about it or when I did talk about it choose my words very carefully that it would help. I never got angry about it and when I finally learned that communicating it in a caring way did no good I became silent and withdrawn and lived in denial. I tried focusing on other things, shoulder the responsibility for the problem, looking inside myself to see how I was contributing to the problem. I tried everything I knew except righteous anger. Oh, I got angry, yelled him right out of my life one morning. I got angry after years of bottling it up inside and hoping for a change.
Michele is right when she suggests you get angry but be careful because anger comes in many forms and if we aren't careful it works against us instead of in our favor. You may not realize but all this pain and feelings of rejection that you are harboring will turn into some very unhealthy anger. The depression is a symptom of it all and will only worsen if you don't act in a more productive way.
In my opinion your wife has a problem that you are internalizing. You are doing all the work at fixing the problem which leaves her off the hook and you baring all the burden. When we percieve that our rights have been violated we get angry. When we stifle that anger we become depressed and resentful.
You feel that your wife is not properly taking care of your needs. You have the right to be angry but after reading your posts you don't seem to believe that or else you fear her reaction to your anger at her neglect. When you give into that fear then not only is she neglecting your needs as a husband then you are also neglecting your own needs. That is a double whammy!! What you may not realize is that by avoiding her anger by not standing up for what is yours rightfully is doing grave harm to not only you but your marriage also. Being assertive...in a kind and loving way with your wife about YOUR hurt feelings is not a self or unloving thing to do. When we express our pain and set limits on what we allow others to do to us we are inviting in resolution and solutions to problems we aren't hiding from them.
Your goal should be to get what you need from your relationship with your wife by respecting her and yourself. I understand you wanting to stay with the goals you have set and think you should but if after a certain period of time you do not get the results you desire you have to be willing to be assertive with her. If you don't anger will grow and instead of using it constructively it will begin to cause you to behave in a negative manner.
Please put some thought into what Michele has said. Also do some searching into your own heart as to why you fear the "sex argument." Your avoidance of that subject with her...although you think is the right thing to do may be causing more harm that good. Cathy
Jeffo, I don't think it's about low libido. In my opinion sex is more about attitude than libido. Unless you have a physical problem that causes lowered hormones then any lack of interest you feel is based on your attitude toward it.
I have a good friend named Sally. Her husband is Dan...when she is playful she calls him Danny. Sally is not all that interested in sex but knows that it is important to Dan. Two times a week Sally gives Dan some extra special treatment. She puts a lot of thought and effort into it. A bubble bath with candles or a new sexy outfit for his eyes only. She doesn't go to all this trouble because she is all that interested in the sex, she does it because she adores her husband, works at understanding what feeling wanted means to him and acts in a way that allows him to feel wanted. She told me that those nights were more meaningful to her than the nights she has multiple orgasms because she is doing something special for her "Danny." She is giving to him out of love and in giving like she does she gets so much in return.
Sally has a good attitude. She knows she isn't going to be in the mood every time but she also knows that loving another person means giving at times when you don't feel like giving. To me it seems like the natural thing to do. Cathy
As a (I think) compassionate person, I keep seeing one glaring aspect of all this is that the low-drive person needs to come up to the level of the high-drive person...or is there some kind of compromise...it's still kind of new to me. What is your take on this?
Well of course there has to be a willingness to compromise. Nobody can promise to meet your every need, all they can promise is to put forth honest effort in meeting your needs to the best of their ability.
What you want is to feel wanted by your wife. You don't need to feel wanted every day, twice a day but a reasonable amount of desire on her part would be nice. I think we would be dealing with more unrealistic expectations to believe that any of us can develop the same level of libido. Libido, ebbs and wans, flows like the tide. I've never talked to a couple who were working at the same level at all times. If you are getting that need to feel desired met on a regular basis then you are going to be more understanding of her lack of desire when it comes up and be willing to do without.
A willingness to compromise and make adjustments is what sustains a marriage in my opinion. You shouldn't have to compromise to the point that you are completely doing without something that you need though. We have to meet each other half way. Cathy
Thanks for your response. I don't agree with you that a person is obligated to have sex with their spouse and I honestly don't want my wife to have sex with me out of obligation. I miss sex very much and I don't understand why my wife doesn't desire me like she did at one time, but I don't believe that the fact that she doesn't is all her fault. I know that I'm partially to blame and although I'm hurting I continue to love her unconditionally and do everything I can to let her know that. Maybe taking that approach won't fix the problem, but I'm hoping that it will and at the moment I honestly believe that it's my best option.
I try to avoid the sex argument with my wife because we've had it enough times that I now realize nothing good will ever come from it. I'm argumentative by nature and I always feel the need to prove my point. Once the argument starts I can't ever let it stop until we've both said things to each other that we regret. Although I'm about the nicest, most even-tempered person you could ever meet, I do get angry with my wife when we get into that argument. In fact I become a complete [censored]. I'm certain that having the argument won't help - I just wish I knew what would.
Having said all of this, please don't think that I don't appreciate your comments. I obviously don't have the answers or I wouldn't be here. Even if I don't completely agree with someone's advice, it helps to know how other people have dealt with this problem.
Obligation: Any act by which a person becomes bound to do something to or for another, or to forbear something; external duties imposed by law, promise or contract, by the relations of society, or by courtesy, kindness, love, etc.
You are the second person who has disagreed with my belief that we are obligated to care for the needs of our spouses. You seem to believe that what I am suggesting is that your wife consent to sex with you when she would rather be tied and beaten. That is not what I am saying. Your wife...just as you did, became obligated to you as your wife to do what was in her power to care for you and your needs. That obligation is based on doing what is needed to keep her marriage healthy. Not only so that you can be satisfied and contented but so that she can also. In the marital contract we have a definite obligation to stay aware of the state of our marriages and to willingly put forth the proper effort to keep the marriage a satisfying one.
No one wants to sleep with someone who views it as a chore. No one wants to live with the daily knowledge that the person who vowed to love us and "cleave" unto us has so little concern for us that they will dismiss our pain. Loving someone unconditionally does not mean letting them off the hook when their actions are hurtful to you. I think it is great that you can accept part of the responsibility. The only problem is, until your wife accepts her part you are just spinning your wheels. You are acting on your obligation to your wife and your marriage and yourself. Until she decides to act on the obligation she has to her marriage, you and herself you won't see much of a change in her attitude.
I don't think you read my entire post. I think you latched onto the word obligation and dismissed the rest of what I said. I didn't suggest you become argumentative...infact I suggested the very opposite. Getting angry and becoming an a#*hole won't help. There is a big difference between destructive anger and assertive anger. You can get angry and stand up for yourself without accusations, blaming, name calling and hurt feelings.
I'm glad that you think it helps knowing how ohers have dealt with the problem. I dealt with it the same way you did. I wavered back and forth between calmly discussing the issue to getting angry and argumentative to ignoring it all together. I ended up divorced. Depression most of the time is nothing more than anger turned inward. All that hurt just turns into anger if it isn't dealt with constructively and in proper time.
I commend you for wanting to stay on the path you are on. What I hope you understand I am trying to say is this...staying on it too long will do more harm than good. Stay with it until it starts to do harm not one moment longer. I wish you well. Cathy
Thanks again for your comments. Considering that you're basically speaking from my perspective in the sense that you've been a sex-starved spouse, I think that reading your posts sometimes forces me to play devil's advocate with my own opinions. Believe me, the thoughts you've shared about obligations in marriage have crossed my mind numerous times. But my ultimate goal is not necessarily regular sex - it's for my wife to want me and desire me like she did at one time. However I can't really demand my wife to desire me. All I can do is fix those things about myself that might be causing her not to desire me, and basically hope for the best. Unfortunately I don't know what some of those things are. And when I've asked my wife, she claims not to know either. Maybe she does know and just doesn't want to tell me, but I honestly believe that she doesn't understand the causes of her low libido any better than I do. And I think she's probably embarrased to go to a doctor in order to find out if the problem might be something physical. As much as I want to solve this problem, I don't want to make her life miserable so that my needs can be met.
