If she asks you to sign the papers ASAP, you have two choices that are okay. One, do what puddle said and tell her that you're still digesting this whole thing and just need a little more time to think about everything, and would therefore like to put that off for a little longer. Two, you can agree to sign the papers and give her what she thinks she wants or needs right now.
Here's the thing -- you can't control her choices, and attempting to is going to do you more damage than good. Flat out telling her no, or that she is wrong, this is wrong, etc, isn't going to play out well. It will tell her that your needs are more important than her needs right now, and it will frustrate and push her away even more. Like the moderator said -- just be there and listen to what she is telling you. Hear her, listen, empathize with her, agree with her, make her feel like you really care about what she is saying (and you should care!). You can learn a great deal from her at this point if you'll just listen to her. You can better determine the steps you need to take to reconcile with her, and also determine what you need to do to be a better YOU.
One thing I want you to know right now. There are no quick fixes. If you want to reconcile and not go through this ever again, it's going to take a lot of work (from both of you) and a lot of time to get to where you need to be. This isn't a sprint -- it's a marathon, so pace yourself accordingly. In these situations, patience isn't just a virtue -- it's an absolute necessity! You must remain calm, cool, confident, happy, strong, etc, when you're around her. Show her a strong man who is willing to let go of the person he loves because that is what she wants. She will respect this a great deal, and it will help her to begin acknowledging and believing that you can change and are changing. It will take several months of you being constistent with the changes that you need to make, because she will not believe they will/can last. She will be very skeptical, so it is very important for you to maintain focus and do what you need to do consistently. The slightest veering off course can cause her to begin having doubts again, so the more steady and consistent you can be, the better your odds will be.
I hope that helps -- please buy Divorce Remedy and read it a few times ASAP. I sure wish I would've. Doing so would've saved me a lot early mistakes and damage.
Hearing this advice is actually very helpful - it puts me in a clearer mindset.
heh. Now, I know I'm essentially supposed to LISTEN. And I will. But if she wants my opinion/thoughts/feelings/explainations or whatever you wanna call it - that'll be tricky, won't it? I'm going to have to actually craft my words very carefully, so I don't end up sticking my foot in my mouth.
As for getting Divorce Remedy, I've been reading it since 9/16. Some of it's not applicable to us (since we don't have kids and are fairly young) but some of it's offered great insight. It's nice to be able to interact with people who've used it, though - easier to get thoughts on a specific situation from people than a book.
edit:
Gone Dancin' - you posted as I was typing my post. heh. I know it's gonna take time - that's one thing that reading DR actually taught me. I also know I'm going to have to impliment all the things that've been said here over the past day. That if I'm really wanting to fix this relationship, it might be many months of showing, not telling, that I'm working on change.
My big, huge hope? Best case scenario from tonight's conversation? For her to leave here with the seeds planted to make her start thinking about slowing down on how quickly she's moving.
Today's plans? Among the standard borning chores, stop by a local church and spend a little time there, and also get some good exercise, to put me in a decent frame of mind.
Ultimately, I recognize these positive changes are for my happiness in the long run. But it'll be alot happier if I can, through my actions, make her want to come back and be with me.
if she wants my opinion/thoughts/feelings/explainations or whatever you wanna call it - that'll be tricky, won't it? I'm going to have to actually craft my words very carefully, so I don't end up sticking my foot in my mouth.
Yes it will be tricky. Just tell her that this is all happening so fast, but it has helped you to take a good look at yourself and recognize that there are things you need to work on for you, and no matter what happens, that is what you intend to do. You might even say that this experience has actually been good for you because it has opened your eyes to changes you need to make. Then say that you're terribly sorry that things had to get to this point for you to recognize this about you, but it has probably been good just for that reason.
Don't go into specifics -- I'll change this, that, etc, -- unless she begins asking you about what you've recognized. Don't go into details unless she pushes you to. You don't want to tell you've changed or are changing, you want to SHOW her through actions. Spilling all the beans without her asking for them will only come across as pursuing behavior. Let her initiate any specific R talk -- otherwise just listen, empathize, and validate her feelings.
Stick to all of the advice you've gotten here so far and you're going to do great, my friend! You're going to feel great too!
Okay, we're going to have the conversation at around 8:00pm tonight. It's 3:45 right now, so it's about four hours to it.
I've been managing to keep calm, and I've cleaned up the room where we're gonna talk, so it's a peaceful atmosphere. I know some advocate for a "neutral" place, but as of now, I think we're gonna do it at the apartment rather than a coffee shop where things are less private.
Deep breaths, some prayer, and clearing my head of any anxious thoughts.
She's gone to see her dad (and some other family) about 2.5 hours away today. She first called and said "Is 9 Ok? I left later than I intended". I said fine.
She called me at 9pm, sounding very tired/worn down/stressed. "Hi, (my name). Would it be alright with you if we talked another night? I'm tired and in a bad place right now and don't want to say anything stupid. Unless you really need to talk tonight, I'd like to reschedule. I can make Monday at around 7pm work"
After a brief exchange, I agreed. Monday works fine for me, and I wanted to meet her needs as well. I was also OK with moving it since I wanted to do it tonight 'cause it was a good night for me - but Mon. works fine, too. Then came a weird question:
Her: "So, if our talk on Monday goes OK, what would you think about resuming gaming next week?"
[gaming = pen-and-paper RPG's. Star Wars. D&D. that kinda stuff. Yeah, we're geeks]
Me, after a surprised pause: "Um, you mean like, the two of us in the same room gaming?" (w/ a group of course)
Her: "Yeah"
Me: "Uh, sure, I'll consider it. I mean, it's a little complicated but I'll give it thought."
So, THERE is an odd question/situation. She wants to get back to socialization and gaming so soon? What the hell am I supposed to make of that? *blink*
You did great, MN Man! Good to accommodate her need to postpone the talk. She appreciates that a bunch, and that will affect her thoughts about you and the M this weekend to some degree.
And what to make of that comment -- I'd say that is a very good positive -- VERY GOOD. Don't let it consume you though, and don't expect for reconciliation during the talk. One thing about WASs: don't believe anything they say and only half of what they do. Another thing you should be careful about doing is getting excited at the proposition of reconciling if she mentions it (or other positives, for that matter). Stay cool, calm, and collected, and simply let the positives sink in if/when they come. Don't pursue when she shows you positives (I think you did fantastic with that tonight, btw!). Remember, patience is a necessity in this process.
And please remember that if she does want to work things out, make sure you are both ready to make whatever changes are necessary to have a healthy R/M. Work together, seek the help of a good MC if you are both open to it (and I hope you are), and keep the changes going for the long haul.
I see positives so far, but you can also expect pull backs from WASs -- it's just the nature of their feelings. Stay consistent with your changes, exercise that patience, listen & empathize, and you have a good chance of busting this D.
I do feel positive about how last night's brief conversation went. I was happy to accomodate her needs, of course - esp. since she sounded so drained.
A few thoughts/communications with friends:
1) A friend of ours who recently talked to my W (on Thurs/Fri) after just learning about this from me on Thurs said that W sounded/said she was completely certain D was what she wanted. Bleh.
2)As for her asking me to think about gaming: Apparently, she and "B" (the not-exactly-OM friend) had talked about making gaming work either on a rotational cycle (she plays one week, I do the next). Recently, they talked about the idea of us gaming at the same time.
So, it sparks the questions: Is gaming so important to her she's willin to deal with whatever? OR is our relationship so fundamentally done for her that she thinks that I should be able to move on, too? (I haven't chased, and I've been understanding of her position, so I might be projecting giving up?).
3) I shared an anecdote about the brillance of our (HER, w/ this story! hehe) cats that was on a more light/funny note. Thurs morn, I fed the cats. Got home from work at 3:30 and gave them a "snack", then headed out again. Room-mate gets home at 5pm and then feeds the cats because they seem super-desperate for food. Devious, manipulative little devils! :P
Whew. OK. So now I understand why there's so many long posts here on DB. Even if you don't expect all of your comments to be addressed, it feels good to get thoughts off your chest.
Great job with the convo! And if that's exactly what W said, it sounds like she's also mature and calm, which is good.
And it'll give you more time to get yourself prepared. GD makes good points about remaining calm and reserved even if she seems to be making steps toward you. I think a lot of people DBing are good at that when it comes to hearing the negative stuff but stumble when there's positive feedback---it's so easy to latch onto the good stuff and get excited. Either way, be prepared to take it in and mull it over.
I agree that wanting to game together sounds very, very good. Even if she's just convinced that the R is so over that it shouldn't matter, it'll give you lots of opportunities to show her the changes you're making.
Are you saying that this would put you in a position to be together with her and the not-quite OM? That could be tough, but you'll know ahead of time and be able to prepare yourself.
