Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums THE SEX-STARVED MARRIAGE Remembering myself, Part II

ok, I was thinking mechanically rather than psychologically.

Karen

How are you doing? Your son is only 5 months old right now, right? Do you think you're feeling any post-partum issues at all on top of the rest of this?

Is there anything in your life that you can back away from? What role do the grown foster children have in your life? Do they still rely on you and your H?

I think that going to a sex therapist by yourself IF your H won't go is a great idea. I think I would let him know about it. It tells your H how important it is to you AND it will help you.

Your description of how your H talks about "jacking off" and porn doesn't really sound that "normal" to me. (Yeah yeah I know what's "normal?") It's hard to tell but from your description it almost sounds like overcompensation and/or adolescent behavior. Especially given the fact he has not had that much sexual experience. What is he compensating for, who knows?

Anyway, I think a ST will definitely be more help than a bunch of us armchair psychologists.

Again Karen you have always impressed me with your ability to try so many things and be so willing to look at yourself and what you can do. Of course there will always be something else you can try but after all you have tried I think you need to stop blindly throwing darts and get professional advice on what steps to take.

Good luck!

Ooooo! i missed this!!!



This is exactly reinforcing what I've been saying, about his fleeing performance anxiety.

With all those people around, he felt "safe" from you attacking him for sex.
So he felt more comfortable showing you affection.. secure in the knowlege that you would be unable to pressure him for sex.

He likes being close to you, but fears the embarassment that sex brings to him.
So he shuts down anything that could possibly lead that way, to avoid it.



fear of failure/embarassment/shame.

go call that therapist.
then actually do what they say

MoJo
it seems highly unlikely to me that a man who doesn't suffer from ED could perform oral or manual on a woman to the point of orgasm and not become aroused himself unless he had recently ejaculated.
I read where one guy went soft giving oral because he was concentration on his W’s pleasure/reactions.

RJ
If a guy is struggling with ED issues/performance anxiety, wouldn't it be easier to work on intercourse from an on-top position or side position, rather than on bottom?

From what I have read and saw on TV sex programs, a guy cums fastest if he is standing upright and the female partner is laying on the edge of the bed. Some call it the Worrier position, others call it the furniture position, like here>http://www.sexual-health-resource.org/sex_positions.htm

Click on some of the alternative to the main positions for some animation.

Side position requires a long member or a strong erection.

For me bottom works well if BB spreads her legs and wants to position herself correctly. I can do almost all of the work and play with BB’s hair–back-butt, which are usually additional turn-ons for me in a tactile sense. Penile sensations are a little less when I am on the bottom because BB doesn’t position herself the way I like and she tends to not be very active.

Me being on top is best for me erection and penile pleasure wise.

Dom, I know Lil knows what she is talking about. I have read her posts for a long time.

Lou

Dom, don't pretend to know what goes on in the mind of a guy who CANNOT get an erection, because you haven't a clue. I'm not overthinking, and I'm not pretending to be a guy. You're really starting to piss me off.

And yes, of course I know a guy can have an erection without being aroused. Did you know a guy can have an ejaculation without orgasm AND an orgasm with out ejaculation. When I said that the erection is an undeniable sign of arousal, I wasn't referring to spontaneous physiological erections that happen in the absence of explicit sexual stimulation (morning wood). I meant that when a guy is feeling aroused, approaches his partner (male or female, I guess), and doesn't get an erection-- or gets one and loses it-- he doesn't know for sure whether or not he is aroused. Often his first reaction (which may be said aloud or kept to himself) is that it's his partner who is NOT arousing him. If you reach out to a beautiful naked woman and your penis does NOT respond-- not at all-- not a tremor, what would you conclude about that? Would you conclude that there is something wrong with you or with her?

I've been dealing with this INTIMATELY for 17 years. I have researced it ENDLESSLY looking for answers, first in my marriage and now in my current R. I know TONS more about it than the average guy whose equipment functions well.

I had one lover in my pre-marriage days who could not come while in my vagina because it was too smooth. He learned to O while MB and liked the rough feel of a hand. Another one had to stimulate himself manually until just before O and then insert. Did you know there were so many variations? My other NINE lovers functioned more or less "normally," but EACH one had his little quirks. Women who have had multiple partners know more about a man in bed than other men do (except gays). Just like I have no idea what other women are up to in bed.

Read "Making Love Again," or "The Men We Never Knew." You've experienced it ONCE? Lucky guy. You don't have any idea what you're talking about on this subject! You have only limited experience of YOURSELF, and you don't have this problem.




Karen, my theory is that the "waxing and waning" is enough to cause anxiety, combined with his other adolescent, inexperienced attitudes toward sex.

IMO that's true in terms of psychology/emotions too. I think most men think that most other men are jerks in bed because that's how they communicate about sex to each other outside of forums like this. Of course, my 2bx was kind of a jerk in bed so I had forgotten that most men are really quite sweet.

you're getting overly defensive, given your position...





Yes. I do.
Because I'm A Guy.
None of that was a relevalation to me. But you're mixing words up. Maybe it's the fault of the books you've been reading, that are using poor descriptions.

Here's a more accurate perspective for you:
When a guy loses his erection, it's not that he "doesnt 'know' if he's aroused". For starters, he is literally NOT physically aroused any more. That's a definition.

What may happen, is that he might wonder, "errr.. well this is bad... do I keep trying to make something happen, or just call it off and pretend I dont care?"

That is to say, he may lose, or waver, in his mental "arousal", as a result of the lose of his physical arousal.


I could make more comments about that paragraph that you wrote, but I'll instead make a more general comment:


What you are doing, is as if I went on a long monologue about how I know all about the sexual response of a woman, because i've done an 'extensive study of the female pubic area for 17 years', and then got all upset because a woman came along and corrected me on things.




however, that puts me as having infinitely more experience than you, who have never had the issue yourself, and never will.

For all your 17 years of being on the female side of the equation, not once did you truely, directly experience what your husband went through. Not Once. You only experienced the effects that HIS problem, had on you.

While I have had the happiness of only having ED once (that I remember) in the presence of, shall we say, immediate pressure to perform... I have had going on 40 years of direct, personal experience with the way that a man's mental desire interacts with the way his physical equipment reacts, or does not react. Not to mention the factor of general stress, and various other things on it.

You have had 0.00 years of personal experience to go along with your 17 years of secondary experience and research of it.

So please take in a little humility and a reality check, with all your years of study on the subject.




Yah, thats what i said already. Except for the "inexperienced" bit... i think that's only a minor factor.


------------------


Side comment to Lou: I'm really sorry for you, and BB not being "active" . Sounds like when she gets on top, she still makes you do all the work. No fair!
With an active woman on top, it can be more stimulating.
Seems to me like having to be muscle-active, deadens nerve response back to the brain. (ie: the more you work, the less you feel back sexually, because the nerves are kept partially full sending back what your muscles are doing)

In the CompSci world, we'd call that a bandwidth problem
I think at the biochemical level, that's actually what is it, too.

I have to keep reminding myself that men like sex, think about it a lot, and get erections when they are turned on. After years with my H, I literally began to disassociate erections with male arousal. No joke. After he had the implant, he just had to manually pump it up and off we went. When I met my bf, I wasn't expecting erections; I hadn't been around one in soooo long. Of course, he was all in a stew because he couldn't hang on to one, but it literally was off my radar. BTW I learned that you never tell a guy with ED that his E or lack of same doesn't matter to you. That's the same as telling him that HE doesn't matter to you. You're trying to let him off the hook, but he is insulted.


Dom, now that I'm calmer... I'm a woman, but I've never had a baby. If someone is talking about motherhood and breastfeeding, I can truly say that even though I'm a woman and have all the equipment, I don't know precisely what they're talking about. I can imagine what it would be like to give birth or to nurse, but that would only be my imagination. If you can 99.9% of the time rely on your penis to behave normally, you truly do not know what it is like for a guy who cannot. I don't know exactly what he's thinking either except for the zillion books and articles and bulletin boards that I've read. But have you read all those things and really talked to other guys about their feelings when they can physically handle a naked breast or butt and have NO reliable response from their penis? Or where they have a response somewhat but as soon as they try IC or even to change position, it goes limp? Like karen's H, my bf will only have IC in one position. I guess it "worked" for him in the past. We've never done my fav position. We've tried it, but each time he loses the E. Are you STARTING to get the picture?

ETA:
This is exactly what I thought I was saying. The mental arousal depends on the fact of the physical arousal.

And yes I am defensive. This is a very hot and painful topic for me. WILL I ever see a reliably erect penis again before I die? I don't know. I'll be 59 next month. It's not looking good.

Wow.. Lillie, when i saw you replying so fast, i was worried you were still angry. I'm impressed that you cooled off already



lillie, i was going to write more details in my prior post, but decided it was long enough.
i was going to write, that while I havent had many "in combat" ED type reactions to deal with... I have had many occasions where I have been in the situation of seeing something, or thinking of something, etc, etc, and suddenly been struck with the thought.. "huh.... kinda wierd I dont have an erection right now".

And assorted variations on that.

I personally think that most guys probably have. They just dont think about it much.
(I dont dwell on it, either )

oh, and yes i have had the reaction of handling a naked ... and having no reaction. I just didnt worry about it much at the time... because I wasnt expected to perform right then.

if, on the other hand, my wife dumped her naked boobies in my hands/face, and demanded "do me now!", I know that I would feel horrible if I let her down.

So, I know whereof I speak.

[actually, that kinda did happen once and dammit, she never strongly initiated again. sniff...]




Actually, that was not what I was saying
"depends on", says "if you dont have one, the other will go away". Rather, I would say, that the physical can influence the mental. both positively, and negatively.

What I wish to convey, is that losing the physical, can be a nasty shock, and seriously disrupt the mental... but if the guy is in the right athmosphere, it doesnt have to mean that the mental goes away.
It might need a little nudge to get it going after the shock... but if the guy is very comfortable with the gal, it can be quite fine.


PS: oh! I just thought of a specific type of example where i have sex on the brain, but no erection. When I have a multi-day sickness. Sometimes, my mental libido comes back before my physical.
Half of me wants to look down there and say, "wake up!" but the saner half is happy, since I wouldnt want to get my wife sick by jumping into things prematurely

There are other situations too, but that's an easy one.

I like "making my wife happy", even if I have no physical arousal.
I dont think I was always this way. I think it happened around the time I made the concious decision to try to stop being a selfish husband. Some time around hearing St. Paul's Ephesians letter for the umpteenth time about a husband's duty to his wife.

AND more importantly you assumed that when the occasion arose (so to speak) again, you would be able to depend on Mr. Happy.



I am so sorry... those memories (yours and hers can linger). Why do you suppose she has never strongly initiated again? Did she take your erection personally?



Yes, of course, I've had this experience with a guy, too, and it certainly can be fine IF HE'S FAIRLY SURE THAT HE CAN HAVE AN ERECTION AGAIN WHEN HE WANTS ONE.

What if he is fairly sure he WON'T be able to have one again when he wants one? This is NOT a comfortable situation for either party.

Again, you don't experience an erection when you're sick. But you're pretty sure that when you're well, you'll be back in the game. What about if the game is over for your penis?



What if THIS were the norm for you?


Can you imagine your female partner assuring you it doesn't matter, she still loves you, "BTW, will you go down on me?" Actually it has the effect of making you want to avoid the whole subject.



I'm suggesting that this is ONE of the components in mr karen's sexual reluctance-- not the WHOLE picture, but part of it.