Divorcebusting.com Forums Divorcebusting.com Archives For Newcomers Archives Nomopo's Funk? Is that what this is?

Nomo/CVA,

As I procrastinate further on writing an article, a few thoughts on what ya'll might be feeling. This is most likely going to be stream of consciousness, so bear with me.

Your marriages are over. You're working on creating a new R based on the rubble of the old. I think you're both expecting your Ws to change and waiting for that change to happen. Let 'em go. It's like your wives still have a lot of power in how you view your lives. At the same time as you have no control over how they act, they also have no control over how you act. Maybe they are manipulating both of you. Maybe not. Regardless, if you're both starting to feel like doormats, it might be time to make a change. I think we all know that if self-pity and a little bit of lack of self-respect creep in, that's not good for anyone -- personally or in the context of the R.

Nomo, I know that you feel bound by your sep agreement with your W. You're a man of your word. That's awesome and to be admired. Your W broke your separation agreement numerous times by having lunch with OM -- methinks she dost protest too much. I think you are well within your rights to push forward to changing the terms of the agreement. You risk pushing your W further away, and maybe into the arms of OM, but it seems to me like the risk of your bitterness overcoming ANY chance of reconciliation is even greater. Certainly sounds like you're ready to start living your life for you. If you're ready to leave the limbo behind, do it. That doesn't mean you have to close the door on the R. However, I think it might free you up mentally and emotionally to start living life like you want to live it, unburdened by being married. What I finally realized in fits and starts over the last 3 weeks is that even though I was wearing my ring, my M was over and had been since April. Holding on to it was more habit and reflex and fear than anything else. Letting it go and acknowledging that reality hurts and is scary, but it's also liberating. It was easier to come to that conclusion because of my W's firm conviction that it is over whereas your W is going to MC/C. Still, if she's just doing that for show (or if you think that she's just doing it for show) nothing is going to improve. This strikes me as the reverse of the alien. The DBing advice goes that our spouses feelings are valid, regardless of our intentions, they feel the way they feel. Well, you feel the way you feel. If you feel like your W is manipulating you, is staying in the situation/limbo ultimately going to help/hurt you and the possibility of saving your M going forward? I know all about acting as-if, and patience, and time is on your side. But, as some of the old-timers recently posted here, at some point, you decide that you're no longer invested in saving your M. And that's OK too. Successful DBing doesn't mean the D is busted (as much as we would all like to believe that to be the case).

You've also mentioned that your W is uncomfortable with anyone knowing you're separated. Too effing bad. You ARE separated. There's a bit of her having her cake and eating it too. She gets to be perceived as a W and the social affirmation that goes with it, but gets to behave like you're only co-parents.

There also seem to be some similarities between you and WAW in that your respective spouses haven't put you first. Something else was always first -- work, family, whatever. This is no longer acceptable to you and has to be frustrating. That just brings me back ot the fact that you need to focus on you. Let pusher nomo go (at least in the context of the R) and turn Pusher Nomo loose on Nomo and living the life you want to lead. Who knows, your W may surprise you. If not, you'll be happy anyway.

If you're burned out. Stay away. Seriously. You'll be missed on these boards, but a break from thinking about all of this is probably what you need the most. I didn't look here much over the weekend and it was a much-needed break. I feel fresher now.

Anyway. Long story short. You're not nuts. I think your feelings are perfectly reasonable. You can look yourself in the eye and say that you've done your best to save your M. Live for you and your kids, hopefully your W will eventually decide to join in. And, if not, as all of the ladies on the board would say, someone's likely to check you out next time you go to Papasitos.

BD

I was just at Ninfa's! Nobody checkin me out though!
Thanks for your comment to me as well H.
Hey Nomo, hope you are well.
C

Hey CVA! Ninfa's at lunch is a tough place to draw interest. How are you feeling today? Better I hope.

I saw this advice from Dave (C_K) on another thread (Puddle'?) a few days ago and I liked it a lot so I wanted to post it here on my thread for future reference:



Thanks for posting that Dave!

Heimlich - thanks for the time and thoughts!



I know this.



Not sure I follow your point here. I am not working on a new R. I am waiting (hence limbo) to see if W "wakes" up. Maybe when I stop waiting is when I am fully detached. Maybe when I stop waiting is when I really move on in my life, including possibly to a new R.

For the record, I have worked on me a lot, and I am still working on me and my life (and my kids). I have spent a lot of time in the recent past analyzing our R/M, and my role in it and what went wrong, but I am not doing that currently. That work has been concluded (for the most part?).



Not expecting. Wondering if she will, and perhaps hoping (yes, I would still, at this point, like my W to wake up and re-invest), but no longer desperately hoping.



Do you mean something more that stop waiting or thinking about her so much. As I said, I am thinking about W and my sitch less and less these past few weeks, but obviously I have not stopped thinking about her and the sitch completely. Do we ever?



I don't see this. I don't think W has any power in how I view my life. My life is pretty good (but for the failing M ), and I am happy generally (but not happy about the failing M) and know I will be happy and fulfilled in my future. But, I am still waiting (and hoping), and haven't given up entirely on W yet. Maybe I am missing your point.



Agree with all of this. Not sure I feel like a doormat. Maybe that is what I am going through, but really I just don't trust my W's intentions, actions, etc. She has proven to be completely selfish, so I wonder if this limbo is really more of the same (her just being completely selfish and trying mot to look bad).



Self pity has been here, and that is not a good thing for me or my sitch. I don't feel like I am lacking self respect though.



I have to deal with the anger, bitterness, and let it go. I don't think re-visiting the sep. agreement for that reason is the right reason though. Those two issues are separate, and need to be considered separately. I need to get rid of the resentment for other reasons. And I may need to re-visit the sep. agreement for other reasosn. I believe I am comfortable with the risk that it pushes W away from me.



This is the key to the second issue above - of revisiting the sep. agreement. I think I am there, but don't want to act on false emotions, so I am taking my time.

I especially liked this phrase that you used - "unburdened by being married." Man, that sounds good at this point! This M is a burden right now. That is the best way to describe it. And I guess I am still willing to bear that burden for at least a while longer for the greater good.



I really don't think I am fooling myself that my M is anything but dead. What I am struggling with is being open to reconciling, and trying to exercise DB skills with my W, versus moving down the road and never looking back (or at least having no intention to look back).



Always good to be reminded of this.



I do not know the answer to this question, and could see it going either way. So, am I willing to push that envelope and find out. I think so, but I'm not quite sure (yet).



I feel I am so close to this point of just moving on. Like I said in therapy a few weeks ago, I am hovering around the line. Not across it yet, but much much closer than not a little while ago. Guess I still haven't crossed it yet, because I would still prefer to work it out (even with the tough years/work it will take).



Preach on brother! Agree 100%.



Well, I think this is the heart of your post and I AGREE COMPLETELY!!!! Thanks Heim!! I need to read this over and over I guess.



I am taking a break. Can't you tell. Seriously, I am only visiting these boards when I want to (or feel I need to for me). But thanks for the support.






Went out Sunday with a married friend on his Bday. After two bars, he got an email from his W calling him home for his "final gift." Must be nice. Anyway, I moved on to the next bar (cool Irish pub) and I (flying completely solo, BTW) managed to strike up a conversation with a pair of young ladies (both very cute, younger than me, one of whom was interested but her friend was too cool for school). I then moved on (note me, not them ) to a group of about five ladies (closer to my age - even a little older) getting interest from several other members of the male species. At least two of these expressed interest and we visited/flirted at length. I then spotted a waitress (younger, cute) who works at a restaurant my family frequents so I went over to visit with her (and her three cute friends, two of whom very very friendly even after the waitress asked about my W and kids and where my ring was - oops). I then moved back after a bit to the second group and finished out the night there. At one point, one for the waitress's friends gave me a funny look (and did that thing with her arms like Ross and Monica do on friends to say "eff you" - she was joking (I think) about the fact that I had left their group for another group and not come back - I might have said save my seat). They did end up leaving before I moved back over. Point is - I may be rusty, but I am by no means scared of being alone or losing my M. I know there are plenty of options. I'd just prefer (at least still for now) to do the right thing for me, W and my kids and save this family.

Thanks again BD!

Nomo

Hi Nomo--

You don't know me but I've been following your situation from the beginning. I'm a far too regular lurker, trying to learn as much from other's experiences as possible. I've been DBing for the last 8 months and am no closer to being out of limbo than I was in February. I've pretty much hit the same spot as you in "just being sick of this sh*t!!" I also feel often like I'm just DBing for my children and that after all that's happened, I'm not even sure if I like my husband or the alien he's become anymore.

Recently though, I'm talking like just in the last week, I've realized that I'm going through this so that I can grow as a person (not necessarily as a wife.) My life was somewhat happy yet also stagnant (realized only in hindsight) in the years before the bomb. When I was in college I always thought I would be one of those people that would actually reach (or at least continuously strive for) self-actualization (Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs) Basically, I truly "knew" that I would become the absolute best person I was capable of being. After marrying and having kids I kind of just started conducting my life in a semi-robotic manner. There was no learning, no growing to speak of. Now, I do harbor bitterness and resentment that I've had to endure my husband's crap. But I'm also grateful that I've had to live it because the experience has opened my eyes to so much...the value of my friends and family, the strength that I really possess. I can actually see my potential again and I'm living every minute to reach it--whether that's with my husband or not. Now I ask, have you learned everything you can from this situation? When I can say yes to that question is when I will know its time to quit and move on.

Sometimes, I even feel sorry for my husband at how stagnant and miserable he feels his life is now, when I'm feeling good and finally learning and growing again. I kind of feel like Heimlech--I’m a beautiful butterfly.” And for a long time I forgot that.

That sounded kind of preachy but its that way of thinking that lets me continue on the road I'm on right now or better said “continue to ride this wave.”

I do admire all your hard work and have learned alot from all of your posts. Thank you.

Nomo,

Hey, stream of consciousness, you get what you pay for



I don't quite agree with this, and this was kindof the crux of what I was trying to get across. I think you can detach, move on with your life, while still waiting for your W to wake up. Of course, if you start dating, I think you can still be open to a reconciliation. Once you begin to develop a new R, with all of that emotioanl attachment, I would say that the R with your W would be over. That make any sense at all?

I also didn't mean to suggest that you've been wallowing in self-pity and not focusing on yourself or living a good life for you and your kids. Good lord, you've more energy that 10 DBers.



Nope, exactly that. Let her go. Stop waiting for her to wake up.


This is what I meant about your W still has some power over your life. Your tone sounds done in the sense that you don't really want to wait any longer. However, you keep throwing in statemenst that "I haven't given up entirely on W yet." Seems to me there's tension between those two things and it seems like you feel like you're just hanging out, waiting for some sign from your W, but not expecting for it to come.

I'm long distance worried about you. I might be reading too much into your recent writing, but there seems to be some encroaching bitterness toward your W. That was never evident in your posts before, at least that I noticed (I haven't read ALL of them, but a good portion). It just seems that you want to move forward (preferably with your W), but she's not coming. Without that hint of bitterness, I'd suggest you keep doing what you're doing. As I posted a while back, you're relatively new to the DB portion of saving your M and your W seems to be making some halting steps in your direction. With the hint of bitterness, moving on without her might be the only way for you to keep DBing.

Arg, I'm having an awful time here describing the nuance I'm trying to get across.

Let me try this:

No, I don't think we stop thinking about our sitch. However, I have somehow managed to split my thinking. Half my brain is open to a continuing R with my W. The other half has acknowledged that the R is over and it is up to her to start it again. Therefore, I'm living for me without thinking about how my decisions affect her (beyond the girls). Dating is a little weird idea for me. On the one hand, I crave that attention that a new R would bring. On the other, it still kind of feels like cheating. From the standpoint of dating, my life is in limbo. From everything else, my life is my own for now.

This make any sense?

BD

Nomopo

I follow along with your sitch when I can , there tends to be a lot of reading :).
You have thrown your heart and soul into DB ing and its little wonder you feel worn out.

My best advice is to do nothing for a week if you can get away with it , other than work and do stuff you want to. Recharge the batteries.

I also want to learn from you re meeting women ! lol (sometime down the track).

Dave

Hi Nomo,

A thought which I hope helps, I'm now entering my 9th month of seperation and I'm still to way focused on my W, even with the latest bomb which I felt I was getting detached with but BAMBH! feelings come flooding back and it still hurts just like it did back in Jan, but due to time and DBing it is easier to handle.

There is no straight line in this (for me anyway!) my thoughts are I saw Dbing as a lifeline and thought if I practised it perfectly it would get my family back together. I made lots of progress, baby steps being met but as of today in reality I'm no closer to saving my marriage than I was back in Jan. My faith in DBing is surely tested, as Michele says not all marriages can be saved. The frustration for me and maybe you is that after the earthquake in our lives we saw a 'solution' and with my case the solution is not working with my W. This leads me to think if I've tried the best solution available and it's not changing the situation then it seems so hopless.

The main thing I get as everyone else says is we rediscover ourselves and in the words of the Dali Lama "everyone wants and should be happy" us as well as our WAS. After my latest bomb, my W and I agreed to talk about the future on a set date. I thought we would recomit but I was wrong but the amazing thing was however much I wanted this to happen I dreaded my W saying she would give it a go and was almost relived when she said she still felt that it was over. I do not want to be with someone who is not 100% committed to me as she was when we were in love with each other. My point is we have grown through this and are better people than we were in unhappy R it would be great if our WAS were as well but they are not.

I crave for love and affection and 9months without it is to long for me, my W left the marriage long ago and I have no guilt if someone else enters my life.

Again I'm not good at putting my thoughts into words so this may seem disjointed but my last comment is don't beat yourself up for anything everyone on this board (except SOP!) has been a tower of strength in a fu*king awful period of their lives.

Cheers
Charlie

Hey Nomo I was a bit worried by your absence, but you sound like you are doing ok. Just wanted you to know that I had a few thoughts for you though!!

Take care bro!

G

1. MMMMMmmmmmmm Ninfa's.

2. Heimlich is the king of stream of consiousness. I loved this post and will have to reread it a few times.

3. Nomo, you are getting detached now. Just let go of the bitterness and you will be there.

4. No offense, but your W needs about a decade of serious therapy. Her insecurities could fill textbooks. Just let her go. Maybe she will take this whole sitch seriously thereafter.

(PS you should be coming for the game in Orlando, still not too late.)

SD

Nomo,

I know I am fairly new to the boards, but I admire you for the effort you are making. I pray that you find some peace soon.