The next thing was an attempt at sex which went nowhere. I ended up by saying "I think both of us want to be ravished and neither of us is in the mood to do the ravishing". He agreed, so we just fell asleep. It was the least rancourous failed sex attempt we have ever had.
I like the honesty of this. Maybe this is the Radical Honesty Corri was talking about.
It's hard when both people want to be wanted. I have this in my marriage. I want H to be that strong dominating male of my fantasies, and he wants me to admire and desire him. None of this was communicated and we both retreated, me into fantasy world, and H to OW.
I have difficulty doing the desiring thing when I am not feeling it. The way I feel the desire is by a strong initation. It's a catch-22.
Lou, if you are reading along, I am wondering how you find the desire to always initate when BB doesn't show you desire.
Not to be an "I told you so" or anything like that, I think if you will scroll up and read my post about "going into the male cave" syndrome above, it is pretty close to what your H actually said.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
RJ, I used to have that unflappable desire for MrsGGB, but it has evaporated. That scares me a bit and I miss it. However, in other respects, not having it has allowed me to start seeing myself a little different and start seeking my happiness in my own pursuits rather than in MrsGGB. I think the fear is mostly because I am into uncharted territory. I haven't a clue where this is going to lead. The flip side is that she doesn't seem to be too bothered by my not initiating and that is creating a chasm in our R that frankly I don't feel much like doing anything about at the moment, and she doesn't seem to want to do anything about it either. Not a good sign I guess.
RJ, I'm not really waiting per se. Its more of a Snarchian "why would I want to with someone who clearly doesn't want it". Still, I understand what you are saying. I'm not really sure what to do about it though. Any thoughts?
RJ Lou, if you are reading along, I am wondering how you find the desire to always initiate when BB doesn't show you desire.
As much as I wished I were with a W with some of the HD traits here on the forum, I just have to come up with ideas that get me what I want with what is there, within our current R. (working with what is)
After I invested so much in getting to were we are financially, kid wise, grandkids, community, I and compare that to what I had as a kid, it looks fairly good to me sometimes. (comparing the before with the after)
On http://www.marriagebuilders.com they have several terms and concepts, two are "Love Bank" and "spending 15 hours a week" with your spouse. I do both most of the time so feel I am entitled to the fruits of a R. (you appreciate what you earn)
BB was the hot one in our early M. We spent too much money and I felt I had to pay off things ASAP. I worked too much so maybe I feel I need to do a bit more of the R police work. (trade off time)
RJ, I spend a fair amount of time rubbing something on BB. All of that contact gets my juices flowing sometimes and if BB is willing, I am going to indulge some.
Reading about how out of place it feels for a woman to initiate just gets me more determined to ignore some of BB resistance. Still, I don't want to be a pig/self-centered and force BB into doing something that is unpleasant for her. Added to that feeling I have to be careful, not take advantage of BB, is a basic shyness from all the things I heard and thought was true, women don't like sex that much and so on, coming here I read a different message.
I read about M's that go sexless and all the associated problems. No I don't want that to happen to our M. I know if I quit initiating, BB would be Ok with that MO for a while, till I quit the back/foot/hair rubs.
I know how much she would feel devastated if I had an OW or just moved out on my own. I know she can b!tch if I want sex but I bet she b!tches 10X if I left and lived on my own. The story of the person that complains they don't have the right color shoes then sees a person w/o feet comes to mind. (ignore some of the complaint)
RJ, I let go of some expectations and gave up on wanting some outcomes. If BB wants to stay fine. If she leaves fine.
In the mean time I AM going to do my part, get the benefits of living an almost normal life. I am not going to expect a whole lot but I am not holding my breath and waiting for BB to deliver the goods on a platter. What is mine, I am going to get at least some of it, maybe not what could be, but I am not settling for a starvation diet, you know just enough to keep you going so a person doesn't walk off right now. Sort of like the German POW camps http://www1.uni-hamburg.de/rz3a035//psychiatry.html 17.11.1942 Introduction of the "Hungerkost" (Starvation Diet) in many Reich institutions. Circa 90,000 people died as a result of this.
I also consider some of BB's medical conditions. (what is the probability/potential given the personality and physical conditions)
RJ, I have some desire sexually for BB but I also have my own desires/sex drive. I want to have sex with someone that wants to have sex with me. If that isn't the case, the next best is to have sex with someone that will have sex with me when my SD overcomes her and my internal resistance. Rub long enough and I can get there.
If BB cut me off, have an A, or did a few other deal breakers, I might start packing.
Till then I have to work with what is. I have a few issues of my own. I suppose if I lived with a composite of all of the women represented here on the SSM forum, that imaginary person would be positing a few things they didn’t like about me.
One thing would be I didn’t stand up to some of their challenges maybe or withdrawing when the R was rocky. So I have some of my own work to do, why not practice getting better right where I am.
Lou, I see a change in you this week in that you are coming forward with what you want and you are not under BB's thumb. Yet you remain kind, caring, sensitive. Nice combination...WTG!
GGB, Is there anything you can do to shake things up a bit, in a good way? Maybe the two of you getting away for a night? A bed and breakfast? A picnic somewhere? Am I dreaming, lol.
When was the last time you went away together? ( I am asking myself the same thing).
Cemar, As you know, I spent most of my marriage being very LD. I didn't figure out that I get turned on by the strong initiation stuff until a few years ago. I was really excited by this, but by the time I told H about this " discovery" he had already checked out of the marriage. Apparently, he had been unhappy for a long time, but never confronted it with me. In some way, I suppose, he was intimidated by me, or maybe he thought I would get angry and want a D. Also, he didn't have a lot of sexual confidence, and he felt what little he had was shaken by my rejection. I say to him now, imagine how our lives would have been different if we both were more in touch with our sexuality and were able to come forward? But we really couldn't talk about it.
It all got confronted when I became newly HD. I was so thrilled to have sexual feeling again...I ran to get books and wanted to share it all with H. But he was angry at my attempts at intimacy ( he was involved with ow). And then I found this board. I had gotten to a place of differentiation where I knew I would be okay without him, and as I got to that place, H decided he wanted to make this work and disentangled himself from ow. Tnis didn't happen instantaneously as this post might suggest...it took a lot of blood, sweat and tears, as all my posts can attest to ( when I was IHJ).
We both have been through a lot and I feel in our 40's we are actually at the start of our sexual journey together. And we are at a much better place...he really makes an effort to give me the strong initiation stuff ( even though it's not exactly him...although he says he's getting into it). I have learned to rely less on fantasy and connect to him as a person, which is really what he needs. I need that too, but I like more play and talk. I guess it's a difference how our bodies work...he can get aroused by physical touch, but I need to put my mind into it, if that makes sense. Also, my H has a big need to be validated and admired, which is not my strong suit. I like being validated and admired myself!
We were really at a stand-off for such a long time and clueless how to fix it. It is not ideal and will never be, but what Lou says, you work with what you have, and it is a work in progress.
