Divorcebusting.com Forums Divorcebusting.com Archives For Newcomers Archives Plank removed from my eye, too late for WAW? 6

Heim, I am not going to hit you with a 2X4. I am going to kick you square in the nuts!!! You have got to get control over yourself. You have got to do it now. You are causing yourself to be in a constant tailspin. Stop worrying about what your wife is doing or who she is doing it with. You can not change it, you can not control it, all you can do is fuel it and the is exactly what you are doing. You can control you, you can change you and you have been. Keep your focus on you and not on her. Do it for you do it for your daughters. Look at all the passionate responses you have gotten from the members here today alone. We all want you to succeed, but we are all pulling our hair out (well some of us) about the things you are doing. Get control of yourself. That is the one thing you can control, so DO IT.

Drop me an email at lovncela@yahoo.com.

Thanks everyone. You are all correct. I finally got a decent night's sleep for a change and managed to do a little thinking about myself. I was doing OK until I saw the photos of the OM and then the fact that she was calling him all the time. I couldn't believe her when she said they're just friends. Who knows, maybe she's telling the truth. Doubtful, but maybe. Regardless, discovering those things was like ripping off an almost healed scab from the wound of the A, ironically, almost a year ago when she told me about that. Yeah, I reverted back, not completely, but in many ways, to the fears and insecurities that had raised and that I thought I was over. Compounded to that is guilt at not being able to get through to my W when she was willing to work on our from Oct through April. Problem is, again ironically, is that I'm focusing too much on my own guilt/role in that R and not enough on my W's failures, something OT somewhat alluded to. She's right, I have felt a lot of pain in this M, some caused by my W. She wasn't meeting my needs just as I wasn't meeting hers. We talked at each other a lot and not enough too each other. And, worst sin of all, took each other for granted. My mom told me yesterday that I ought to get angry a little. I don't think that's the right thing to do, but I need to do some real thinking about the things that SHE did that got us her too.

She said that she feels violated that I went to the house. She's right, she should. But she never let me get over the A by talking to her about it. Any time I mentioned the pain she had caused me, I was "throwign it in her face." I needed to talk, she felt ambushed when she came home. I tried to set up a scheduled time once or twice a week to talk about us, she would never keep to that. This is her fault to. And her feelings of violation? Please, let's compare notes, she slept with another man in our bed. I decided I could forgive her for that. Then, when I thought things were going well, she was talking to her mom and friends at work about unhappy she was. She never told me, always someone else. Plus, I found out she was sending her mom my emails. Who's been violated a bit more?

I also realized that in many ways, I don't know who I am without her. I've known her since I was 19. She's been the only girl/woman I've ever been serious with. I've been a husband and father for so long, somewhere along the line, I forgot to figure out what I wanted.

Anyway, I gave her the house key back yesterday. She made a snarky comment 'can i trust you that you didn't make a copy'. Let it slide, just said yes. Asked if we could talk at some point in the future. She said maybe, but I'm so mad at your right now I don't want to talk to you. Said fine and left.

I'm going to float a quick idea to see if it makes sense to anyone: she sticks to any of my negatives to justify pushing me away because trying again would be hard.

Oh, and OT, I do think we COULD have a beautiful life together. I don't think it would be easy to get there or a certainty. I know I've written that as a given, but I don't think that it is. What bothers me is the never knowing. If we gave it an honest effort and came tot he conclusion, "nope, we're not for each other," that'd be much easier to accept than all of this shite.

Best to all. I'll be checking in here and there, but don't have the emotional bandwidth to really comment much at the moment.

Thanks again everyone. It means the world to me that all of you are pulling for me. Thank you.

BD

((((Heim)))))

We do what we do, there is no point dwelling on the shouda,coulda,woulda! What matters is what you do from this point on!
You are a great person, and have helped me more then you know!!
We will be here for you whenever you need...take the time you need to sort yourself out! And take care of yourself!!

Hey Heim! I have been following your sitch for quite awhile. I think I am probably the female version of you as I keep backsliding and I know the result before I do it, but I still do it! It is hard and frustrating, but we have got to get it together if either of us has a chance to get the S back. I know it, you know it, we all know it...it is just doing it that is so darn hard! Anyway, just wanted to let you know I am pulling for ya! Hang in there.

Hey Heim,

It sounds like you feel in many ways like you're right back where you started emotionally. I guess that's the roller coaster they talk about.

Good for you for returning the key and not rising to the bait about a copy.

One thing I'd like to say: you keep saying you don't see how you have a shot as long as OM is in the picture, and I see it differently. You say if he's meeting those needs that you should've, where's the motivation to get back with you?

Getting our needs met is obviously crucial, but they can't be met by just anyone, especially long term. While OM may meet those needs now, he may not always. R issues will come up between them, too, and no one knows what'll happen then.

We all hope that our WAS will eventually value the years we've had together and the children's best-case scenario, that all that will help tip the scale toward giving us a shot. The investment is worth a lot, and it's a lot to walk away from.

What I'm saying, Heim, is that your W is nowhere close to giving you a shot right now. She's heavy into the ecstasy of her new R (sorry), and you keep ambushing her and your R, pushing her right back to OM. IF you'll ever have a chance, it'll be long after you back off.

Her R with OM isn't the problem: your behavior is. I don't think you believe that (since you keep saying you don't have a chance as long as he's around). You're still trying to push the R on your own schedule, wanting it now now now, not after the R with OM runs its course. You don't get to choose that, though. You're not making the schedule. As long as you keep beating that horse, you're setting yourself up for disappointment and you're ambushing all your other good efforts.

If her R with OM is your boundary and it's over for you, that's okay. I don't have the sense that it is, though, rather that you're just crushed that you'll have to be waaaaaaaaay more patient than you have been. It sucks. She cheated. She won't talk to you about it (hello guilt).

But Heim, she's not in rebuilding mode, and you're helping keep her where she is.

((((Heim)))), a break sounds like a good idea. Take care of yourself, my friend.

Good Morning Heim,

Even as you started with "You are all correct", the text of the remaining post was more of the same.

Putting the focus on W's "failures" is just as unproductive & damaging as continuing to focus on your own guilt. What would "doing some real thinking about the things that SHE did" accomplish except to keep you engaged in behavior that will put that final nail in the R?




You might want to read this paragraph over a few times as if you're reading someone else's post.
This pattern is going to have an effect on your W for sure, I just don't think it's going to be one that brings you closer to your positive goals.



Heim, she is not going to see your positives until you leave her alone & really give her space.
It's hard for all of us LBS's, whether it's been 20yrs or 2 yrs, to stop pursuing & let go of the control. (that we don't have anyway).
We are all pulling for you......that's why you get all the feedback & posts urging you to take a real evaluation of your sitch & use the experience & resources available here.

Onward & Upward,

Sunny

That makes sense, except that you might want to add the word "now"---she doesn't want to try now. And while she's not trying, there's nothing much you can do except to think, and wait, and be sad, and be a good father. At some point, you'll likely feel as though you WILL be all right without her; and then maybe, a bit later, you won't even want her. At which point she may want you.

As for the violation of the blessed undies draw, cheer up: at least you didn't inspect them while she was wearing them. Her affair trumps undies inspection and, of course, she knows it, or she will know it in time. Her anger at you is a complicated thing.

My poor husband was nearly frothing at the mouth when he discovered that I was planning a trip to visit his aunt several months ago. His rage completely baffled me, until I actually paid my visit, and came across his "trophies" stored in the children's playroom. What they amounted to was a very stupid, very secret, very sad other life of some years standing. Although he was divorcing me, and it shouldn't have mattered what I saw or what I thought, it did. He not only had the grace to be ashamed, but even to value my good opinion. Either that or he reckoned I would tell everyone, which I promptly did.

So, you see, it could be the same with your wife.

I wouldn't give up on that idea of a beautiful life, either---because it's a beautiful idea...and your wife doesn't seem any farther gone than others who have wanted to try again. She seems more conflicted than many. The true violation may be of her own sense of self-respect. You just never know.

If you two do get together again, somewhere down the road, I don't think that she should EVER be allowed to live down the lah-di-dah-pouf-dah business of: "I am no longer entertaining such questions"---or whatever it was. Forgive the A, freely and fully, but tease her on that unto her dying day.

Heim, you are right, she has done a lot of things that have hurt you and a made you feel violated. But, dwelling on them, playing the victim, snooping to find out new ways you have been wronged, discussing them with your wife (or trying to anyway). Are having absolutely no positive effect on YOU or your R. Focus on the negatives and the outcome will be negative. Focus on the positives and the outcome will be positive.

You have wronged you wife also, that is why your R is where it is today. Does she follow you around telling you how you have wronged her, playing the victim, reminding you how much you have hurt her at every chance she gets. I am guessing no. I am guessing the only time she even says anything about how you have wronged her, is when you are playing the victim to her. I bet the OM loves you. You are like his biggest supporter. Every time you argue with your wife, every time you play the victim with your wife, every time you violate her space and trust, she goes back to him for comfort, because you are being such an ass to her. Each time you are driving her farther from you and deeper into his arms.

DETACH, STOP CONTROLLING, STOP PLAYING THE VICTIM AND GAL. When I say GAL I mean it GET A LIFE. You may be be doing things now to GAL that you did not do before, but you obviously have to much free time on your hands still. Because your main focus seems to be the victim roll and not your life and your happiness.

H, I care about you and your R. Your R has a good chance, but not if you continue on this path.

One of the benefits of working at home, you can 'attend' staff meetings and not even have to pretend to pay attention.

Thanks again, everyone. You've all given me a lot to think about.

A few clarifications.


This ambush/her refusing to talk pattern was from October 2006 to Jan 2007, after that, things, i thought, started to improve. This pattern is no longer as it was, though, as you all know, I do talk too damn much.

Sunny, thinking about her role, at least a little, eases my guilt and allows me to realize that the blame also lies with her. From April until now, I've rarely thought about her role in all of this. As many of you rightly point out, I am where I am in large part because of ME. It may not always come across in my posts, but it's something I feel in my bones.

Sunny, Nugget, et al -- I know she's not going to be able see "me" again until I leave her the hell alone. Puddle made a pretty accurate point, for the last week or so that I'm emotionally back at square 1. And I have kindof been reliving the finding out about the A feelings. It's not a happy emotional place to be. That said, I'm not wallowing in it like I did a year ago. Thanks to all of you, I feel a lot better about where I am and who I am.

I know, I know; the tools are there. I just need to be patient enough to use them.

Delia, that's funny as hell about a trophy room. Details? Please?

Nugget, you misunderstand me slightly, I think. I don't feel like a victim. I know and understand, for the most part, how my W came to feel about me/the marriage (remember my apology, which she said was 100% accurate about how my actions made her feel). If anything, in some ways, I feel as if she were the victim. This gets back round to Sunny's point earlier about why think about W's role in this. Because, the more I feel that she is the victim, the guiltier I feel and the more I feel that I have to make it up to her. Those feelings have been the hardest to overcome as I try to detach from her. Plus, the OM thing is trememdously hurtful. Were she talking to anyone else, it would hurt, but not nearly as much as this.


Yes, check, I've wronged her. However, she's only opened up to me two or three times outside of a few councelling sessions back in May, about how she felt about me. Honestly, if she started telling me about how i hurt her, I'd be grateful as it'd almost be a signal that she cares again. She's said she was unhappy for several years. While I'll readily admit things weren't perfect and that neither of us were truly happy all of the time, we never spoke to each other about how we felt. I'd love her to kick me in the jewels (by the way, kick away, I was wearing a cup). Oh, the other thing, other than telling her how hurt I was by finding the photos and the calling with OM, I would say about 90% of the substance of the rest of the R talk over the past few months (yes, I know too much of it) revolved around my new understanding of how I made her feel and how I wasn't a good H to her. I've forgiven her for the original A. It's over and done with. What bothers the hell out of me is that she told me ILYBNILWY in mid april, i leave for 3 weeks in Louisiana in late May. In August, I find photos of her and OM forwarded from her work pc to her hotmail account dated May 27. I know, I know, I have to let it go, but, damn, man. I've got a little man on my shoulder who keeps whispering in my ear, "it was all BS, she never really tried, she was just waiting for you to effe up and you did. it was all about him all the time she never stopped seeing him." For the most part, I keep that little F%%ker bottled up, but occassionally he escapes (witness my stupid, and not nearly as humorous as that of Revenge of the Nerds, panty raid).

I know that I have a tremendous reserve of strength and willpower that I've just not been able to tap into recently. I'm drilling, but it seems the bit keeps hitting granite and breaking.

I just have to remember, as all of you say, there is no relationship. I know it. I just haven't wanted to feel that yet. One of those sick, twisted facts of life. If I don't feel that there is not relationship, ultimately, I won't be able to rekindle a relationship with my W. How effed up is that?

Waaaaaahh, why can't this be a Lifetime movie?

Delia, seriously, trophy room. Details. I'm intrigued.

BD

Hey Heim,

I just opened your email last night (didn't check my inbox until then -- sorry). I'll shoot you another email with my number, and if you want to talk sometime tomorrow during the day, I will be available (I think I'm heading out of town for the day and evening today).



Okay, I know some others said that this is unproductive, and I agree -- IF YOU DWELL ON IT. For me, once I began accepting that ALL of the fault of the M wasn't on me, and that she had some blame too, I lot of weight (i.e. guilt) was lifted from my shoulders. I was able to honestly say, "Okay, we BOTH really did contribute to this breakdown. I don't have to live with all of this guilt. She hasn't accepted her role, but that's fine. I know that she has things to work on too, and if she chooses not to accept that and work on them, I have no control over that. I'm doing right by me and my future, but I don't/won't carry ALL of the blame for the loss of my M anymore."

So, the point I'm making here is that acknowledging her fault in the breakdown of the M will help you rid yourself of ALL of the guilt. You will still feel some, but not ALL of it. And, with time, you will be able to accept the guilt, own it, and release it -- but only after you make the necessary changes and stick with them consistently over time. For me, I still kick myself at times (just because the whole thing is still relatively fresh), but I quickly remember that she failed me too and that I've atoned for my mistakes, and that helps to get me rid myself of the guilt too.

Don't let your acknowledgement of her mistakes anger you though. Just accept them, Heim. You can't do anything about them. Only she can.



I agree with Puddle, here. You've known that she has had this A going on, whether it is EA or PA or both. In the end, it doesn't matter what the A is because the bottom line is that it is wrong. It hurts to know it exists, and it hurts the pride even more to know that you're willing to put up with it. It feels humiliating, but it's up to you to decide whether or not you're willing to stand for your M even in the face of such damage to the ego and the M. This A is not a cause, but a symptom -- and you know this, just remind yourself. I don't think you're done, but the pain of accepting that you're still willing to reconcile is so immense that you want to believe that you are done (or believe you should be done). Do for you. Draw the boundary for you, and just know that you can live with the choices you make in this regard. That's all. Pride set aside, where do you stand for Heim and what he wants and is willing to go through and put up with?



I completely agree with this, too.



Agreed -- and you are beginning to accept this too, Heim (I think).



I agree with Sunny on this one. No "buts" about any of her decisions. Accept her choices and be content. Show her that you respect her choices and needs right now. It will take the wind out of her sails and she will be much more willing to open her mind and eyes to the positives and changes in you.



Absolutely correct! This is an extremely common characteristic of the WAS. They keep looking at our past negatives, and also current negatives in order to justify their choice to walk away, separate, divorce, etc. That's why you must calculate your moves carefully as long as you're still invested 110% in reconciling and not losing your S.


I'm not sure if I understand you correctly, Delia. Are you suggesting Heim forgive his W, but "tease" her about not answering his question about the potential A that occurred? If so, I have to say that this is a very unhealthy thing for the M. It shows that Heim doesn't really forgive her (which would be unhealthy for both Heim and the M), and it is also disrespectful to her feelings in the new R that they have decided to create together. I'm sorry but if I'm reading that right that is just horrible advice IMHO. I don't see how doing that would benefit anyone at anytime in that R.



Agreed. Are you still taking dancing lessons? Is there some sort of social function that caters to those types of dances that you can attend? Get out there, practice what you've learned, and enjoy yourself. Find some activities you can volunteer with (and enjoy), and meet new people that way. I know you were doing some other things (working out being one of them, which is great!), but can't remember what they were. BTW, I'm finally used to my waxed chest and abs, and am looking damn sexy! Working out is so helpful for the self-esteem!

People have been pointing it out, but I say it too -- you've got a ton of people pulling for you, Heim. You've been hit with many 2x4s (and taken one in the cahones by Nugget), but they have come because we all care so much about you.

Talk with you later, brotha. Do your best to look at things with absolute clarity and acceptance, and follow through with the very difficult actions that you will need to take.

GD