Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Infidelity/Extramarital Affairs/Jealousy What to do with a fence-sitter

Oh Joie, I can't believe she is such a loser!!! Does it drive you crazy to try to figure out what he sees in her??

And yes, are we sure we want the booby prize?? My H is sure doing things to try and make me not love him, that's for sure. Deep down we know what we want, but its a long hard road.

Yes, it does drive me crazy about what he sees in her. It’s so insulting that he is even considering choosing this low-life ho. The longer he sits on the fence, the less sure I get. His ambivalence is making me ambivalent. Or perhaps it's resentment. Or both. For the past 3 months I have been adamant to myself that I want to R. Now I don't know.

I don't know how much longer I can take the lies. He is not lying to me outright, but he went out Saturday to pick up something for dinner. I also needed things at the store so I suggested we go together. No, he didn’t want that. He wanted to go alone. I know he went to see her. He was gone for nearly 3 hrs and he stopped at the liquor store near her house (which is WAY out of the way for him to go to). There is only one reason he would go to that store, to see her.

I wanted to do something with him Saturday night – go out, see a movie, get dinner, anything. We did nothing. We spent time together but did nothing exciting. Instead, he saved his energy for going out with his friends on Sunday. He can’t have fun with me, would rather have fun with them, or her. Perhaps he thinks I'm a boring person.

I've had several suggestions from people here to do MC if he is willing. But what is the point if he won't commit? Seems like false hope to me. At this point I don't know what I want either. I'm thinking of telling him to go. If that’s what he wants, go, I give you your freedom. I can’t take any more lack of respect. My bitterness is eating me alive.

As far as GAL, I really think he would see it as me moving on. Why? Because we have been really independent of each other and our activities the past few years, so GAL isn’t too much different. I’m not saying I’m not GAL, I am trying -- for ME. But I’m off to a slow start. I spent some time with friends this weekend and enjoyed it. Although going out more with friends may make him jealous. But I think the only thing that would get his attention is if I found a male friend. If he thought he was really losing me to someone else, I know he would start thinking hard!

He actually gave me that option a couple months ago. He said "I feel I need to ask this but don't want to. If you feel the need to date or something like that please let me know." I asked him why he didn't want to ask that and it was like pulling teeth to get an answer out of him. He finally said, "because I was afraid it would be over." I could have cried. But still he won't commit, is still lying and seeing her.

I'm writing today because I have this urge to email him and tell him I can't do this anymore. But I don't want to do that for the wrong reasons or because I'm angry and resentful.

Tomorrow is our daughter's birthday. I love birthdays. I love to make them special but God help me my heart is not in it this year because of him. I am thinking of the birth of our beautiful daughter 14 years ago. And it should be a good memory. Now that memory is clouded with the pain, hurt and anger of his actions. I hate him for that. I hate the fact that we're going to act all happy during this celebration when deep down I am not.

I just don't know what to do. I really need some TLC here

He doesn't think you are a boring person but your presence would remind him of who he no longer is. He can not be the life of the party and have to face reality at the same time. He will need to lose everything before he opens his eyes.

Hi,
The last time I posted I was really about at my wit's end. I was ready to kick him out. Everyone says if he seem willing to do counseling, I should pursue that. This is sort of a rhetorical question .... and more for me to dump the frustration I'm feeling but why can't I tell my H what I really think? It is so hard to keep it all in. It makes me so resentful. On one hand, I would feel so much better, on the other, I know it would make no difference probably. What would he think? Would it make him really think? Would he just not hear me because he can't (because of his addiction to this affair?

This is just some of what I would like to say to him:

H -- I have been knowingly living with this other person in our lives for over 3 months now. You say you aren't sleeping with her anymore, but how do I know that for sure? You won't be transparent. You hide your cell phones. You confiscate the credit card statement when it comes in the mail. You get angry when I don't believe you, but why should I believe you? What are you giving me? Your word? You have got to be kidding!! You lied to me for a year, then continued to lie to me and now you just expect me to believe you, to trust you?

You go off during the weekend and are gone for hours at a time. Alone you say. Or at a friends house. You never mention her. I'm sure if I asked you would deny she was there, too. You ended up going to the Renaissance Festival last weekend -- a trip we usually do as a family -- alone, you say. That is not something you do alone. It's something you do with other people. Come on, I am not that naive! How can you think I'm such a stupid idiot?! And now you have plans to go a party on Saturday. You won't "invite" me. You say "I can't see you having a good time." What the hell? How would you know? Oh wait, you just don't want me to go because she will be there. You deny it but again, how naive do you think I am?

But yet you spend time with me. We talk and enjoy each other's company. We talk about our problems without getting too angry and I feel like we make headway. You seem willing to go to IC or MC. But I can't see us going anywhere with this OW in your life? Can you not understand that she is just an addiction for you? How can you be willing to risk everything we have built, a solid relationship with your daughter, a wonderful home and equity, a wife with a solid career, decent financial freedom --- to be with this low class woman? HOW?

She is a bad mother. She abandons her kids. Drinks too much. Convicted of DUI. Is a former coc addict and has had at least 2 other lovers before you. How can you stoop so low? You think you want to live with her? What the hell is wrong with you? I know you love me. I know you don't want your family broken up. Why can't you see the utter foolishness of this?

But yet want your cake and you want to eat it, too. Unfortunately that does not work for me. Your ambivalance is making me so angry, so resentful. And the more there is to resent, the more difficult it is to overcome. Why can you not see that you're still inflicting damage ... to me and to us? How can you be so blind? So selfish? WHY CAN'T YOU WAKE UP!

Perhaps you will when it's over. But probably not until I say get out and you realize I am not going to put up with this SH$$ any more. If I kick you out, will you come to your senses? If you no longer have your home to come home to, your kitchen to cook in, your daughter to love or a family to have dinner with, your bed to sleep in, etc., what will you do?

OK-- I could go on and on and on. This is just a bit of what I would like to say to my H.

Why, oh why, oh why, can't I?? I just want to kick him off the fence before I lose my sanity.

I just how much I look forward to, but dread the weekends at the same time. Although H has plans to go to a party sans me on Saturday we're planning on doing a family thing on Sunday. I'm wondering if we should.

I think it's so sad that out of all the topics in this forum, this one always has the most viewers...

I totally understand you about the weekend thing. TOTALLY.

Joie,

i saw you post this on another thread too. so i thought it was worth bringing it up to you.

you wrote:



it sounds like you werent listening to him. and you still dont want to listen to him fully.

Wouldnt it be more accurate to say, that he talked to you about problems, AND he put you down?

Also.. how is it possible to talk about problems in a marriage, (if some of the problems are due to your behaviour), without criticizing you? I dont see how that is possible.

To be honest about things you were doing wrong, he has to say in some shape or form, "These are things you are doing wrong".
That is, by definition, criticism. "You are doing something wrong".
There's no way around that.




again there.. sounds like you werent listening, and still dont want to admit it.

Another perspective on what he did:

"First, he tried talking to you in private about it. You didnt listen to him. So then, he tried talking about the problems in front of other people, to try to get you to finally change your behaviour. That didnt work either."

Yes, he deliberately tried to use "shame", to get you to change your behaviour. No, it didnt work, and made you more angry and divide you more.

Yet at the core, wasnt it your behaviour that triggered his, in that area?

-----------------------------------

I know you're going through a very tough time right now. I know you are really trying to improve yourself, and your marriage.

I think that you will have difficulty in improving your future, however, until you fully acknowlege your part in your marital past.

both to yourself, and to him.

You might consider apologising to him, for not listening to him, when he tried to communicate with you.

Yes, he did it badly.
But he did try.
It's more than some men do.

Dom,
I fully accept my share of our problems. I have read up on relationships and sexual inhibitions, and am seeing a C. I know I had my part in our problems. But it takes two. And, I have apologized to my H for them. I accept responsibility for my part of our problems -- fully -- completely.

Did I give the impression that I felt none of this was my fault? I know an affair signals a problem in the marriage. I know/knew we had problems.

But again it takes two. Unless you have lived with the type of criticism I lived with, you don't know what it was like. And criticizing is not constructive communication. It's disrespect.

And it does not justify having an affair.

~Joie

i agree.




I disagree.
There are levels of criticism.
At the lightest level, there is the perfect "politically correct", "polite" method. Something like,
"When you do X, I feel bad".

At the medium level, there's "you hurt me when you do X".
followed by "Stop doing X, I cant deal with that"

And at the extreme level, there's "Stop doing X! You're a lousy miserable person for doing that!"

all of the above, are "criticism".
all of the above, are also "communication".

On the part of the person being hurt, I think it is usually a good idea to try the lightest level first.
Some people need to be taught that. They dont even see how it might even work.

But... what would you say they should do, when it doesnt work?

Most normal people will tend to progress from the "light", to the "heavy" side of the scale, when the other party does not respond to "light".

As far as disrespect goes... if things escalate from "light" to the "heavy" scale, then it may be deserved.


I think that ignoring critical communication, by labeling it as "disrectpectful", is behaving in a shallow and uncaring way.
It's one thing to respond with, "I dont like being talked to that way: talk to me about what you need, without insulting me".
It is a very different thing to respond with, [I'm going to deny you what I know you need, because I dont like the way you communicated it to me].

You may think that this subject is "water under the bridge". here's why I bring it up, though:
In a marriage (or any other close relationship, for that matter), there needs to be leeway given, by both the speaker, and the listener, for any issue.
The speaker should do their best to not give offense in their communication. However, the listener has an equal duty, to try not to TAKE offence, but instead try to listen and respond caringly to what the speaker is saying to them.

If you dont follow that model in discussing future issues with your husband, then I think you are going to have a rough time of things.

I did tell him I did not like to communicate with him when he was being critical and scornful. Both of us were guilty of not communicating effectively. I realize that now, so does he.
And, we are past that now and are communicating effectively.

"Listening and responding carefully", "not taking offense" -- yep, we're we there. We've talked more in the past 4 months than we have in the past 4 years. Just wish it had happened two years ago.

Thanks