Jethro, I'd like to think these feelings are quite common. If not, then there's some kind of weird virus going around Piecing!
I've been having those same thoughts and feelings. That's what exploded out of me at our C session last week. When we got there, C took one look at me and made a volcano analogy!
Sage has some very good points there.
I think once we come down from the frenetic rush of trying to save our M's, we, the one's who did all the work initially, start to reassess.
We start to really think about our own needs. And whether or not they can be met in our current M's.
I, too, sometimes feel myself pining for an R in which I am really WANTED, desired, etc. Are we asking for too much too soon? Probably, but the feelings are there, none-the-less .
Perhaps this is good? I think it took my H aback to hear that I wasn't "perfectly happy" with the way things were going. But I think it spurred some motivation on his part.
(I know, I know....why do they need such to just LOVE US?? )
Quoting Sage:but what happens when you tell your wife that this R isn't one that you want long term? In other words, it sounds from W's response to you (we need to work past this, etc) that she is committed to staying IN the M. What's her response to the idea that being committed isn't enough? That there's work to be done to bring it to the level that's satisfactory for you, too?
I haven't REALLY been very clear about my eventual expectations because I don't want to come on too strong, and I don't want to "force" the issue. That being said, I've said, "W, it would be nice if you did A or B," then her response in defense is to say, "Well, jethro, I've done C, D, and E." And you know, Sage, she's right. But, rather than just listen, she can be a little defensive because she thinks I only see what she doesn't do rather than what she does do. I know she feels this way and try to acknowledge her efforts.
Quoting Sage:Because I'm wondering if the same techniques can't be applied in your M. to get you both over this plateau.
This is the question of the hour, really. I'm not sure that we'll ever get over that plateau...that's what I'm concerned about. Yes, I believe she's committed to our M...now. Yes, she is trying here and there. However, I know what I want is not unreasonable and I'm not getting it. However, to ask puts more pressure on her when she already is trying, and I don't really want to do that. It's more like she's resigned herself to be in our M rather than really wants to be married.
Quoting SB:I, too, sometimes feel myself pining for an R in which I am really WANTED, desired, etc. Are we asking for too much too soon? Probably, but the feelings are there, none-the-less.
Perhaps I'm trying to rush things a little too much and am impatient. I don't know... I just want a decent R here.
jethro, you are an incedible person. you deserve to be loved passionately in every aspect of the word. your w is still coming to terms with what she did. it is still early in the process for you. i felt angry for about 3 months straight and was not always pleasant. i still get angry feelings. i still get sad feelings. i still feel doubts about if h is what i really want.
but now i have learned that feelings pass and i don't have to act on them. in fact, i can act opposite to how i am feeling on occassion if it is appropriate to do so. things seem to turn around when i do. i took your advice and started "coasting". i also took my own advice(finally) and began acting positively. i had been stuck for a while in sadness. i couldn't shake it and even thought about going back on antidepressants. prayer helped, but i found even my prayers felt sad.i had to start focusing on the here and now. i have to keep pushing the past back where it belongs.
jethro, my h just said last night he hates thinking about what he did, but even though he doesn't talk about it or bring it up, he always "knows" what he did. there is no getting away from it. i bet your w feels the same. hard to be loving to your s when you don't feel very loving towards yourself. don't give up yet. it certainly isn't fair but give her more time. all that you are dreamimg for could be so close in the future. it can take 2-5 years to heal from an A. i am at 13 mo. and counting. i didn't do too much healing right after h walked out as i was too busy trying to take care of a baby and survive, so i don't count those 4 mo. plus i didn't know the whole truth right away.
give yourself a break, ok? whatever you are feeling is completely normal. and we finally got Spring here!
Sorry to hear you had an off weekend, but it happens ... try not to make too much out of it.
Shiny is right. The Dbing we have done has put us through a tremendous transformation of personal growth where we question and reasses everything. We all go through it.
... and if you believe, love is a choice, then doesn't it go against the grain to chose to love someone that has hurt you so? Of course there will be doubt to whether you made the right decision to such an important choice in your life.
To be totally honest, Jethro, I'm coming up on a year since my W has come back to M and these weeks in April have been the best I can remember in a long time, but even so, but just a couple days ago, I found myself wondering if I could have done better than choosing to be with my W ... as fleeing as those thoughts are ... they're still there just the same.
Quoting Jethro: My thoughts are gravitating to what it would be like to have a real R with someone who really seems to like me.
The ironic thing here Jethro, is in order to develop this new R, you will still need to continue invest the same amount of effort, if not more, and time as you have been up to now. How many women would you have to meet before finding the one that returns affection the way you are searching for and how long would that take. Do you say, I give you three months of dates before I move on?... The point I'm making here, Jethro, is Dbing your W or dating for a new prospect, it all takes effort and time ... no getting around that. At least, you know with your W, you had what you are seaching for once, it can be achieved again. With dating, its purely an unkown. At least this is the conclusion I came to. (As I said, I was wondering too.)
Quoting Jethro: This is the question of the hour, really. I'm not sure that we'll ever get over that plateau...that's what I'm concerned about. Yes, I believe she's committed to our M...now. Yes, she is trying here and there. However,...
To reiterate what your W said, you both are still at a place where you have to move on, so I don't see you being stuck where you are at, so long as you continue to keep the positives going. So try to hang in there for now Jethro. Like the typography of the world, your R is not flat. You may be transversing the plateau or the Great Plains or the open seas, but eventually the landscape will change. Even though, it may not be happen at the rate you desire, your W is going though some personal growth of her own. Lisa is right in that she has to work out coming to terms with what she did, but as your navigator she is telling you, you're heading in the right direction.
Well, this is another long winded post just to say ... Jethro there will be times when you feel this way, but ride them out and they won't last too long and it does gradually get better.
I meant to comment on this in my earlier post and forgot...
Quoting Jethro: I've said, "W, it would be nice if you did A or B," then her response in defense is to say, "Well, jethro, I've done C, D, and E."
I know what that is like and know how that leaves both partners feeling frustrated, so discussions that start off that way don't work very well. Jethro, the next time you want to "ask for what you want", don't directly ask for it. Don't phrase as it as an expectation - "if would be nice if you did A or B", but rather as an outcome of a choice she can make - "if I received A or B, this is how I would feel" and the choice is totally up to her.
By giving her the power of choice rather than laying a burden of expectation upon her, will give her the oppurtunity to demonstrate the conviction you are seeking and turn the frustration you both have into validation of the support for each other.
This is a discovery I have recently made and it is working pretty well, although I'm still tweeking the technique.
You've pretty much cut to the bone on this one. Expectations, think on it. When we expect something we are taking away some part of our s'es individual right to choose. Shouldn't they retain the right to choose how to behave towards us? Don't expectations give rise to resentments? As in: "I've done X and Y and now s/he tells me that they expect me to do A and B". At the same time we cannot expect our s'es to mind read.
I think that your technique is very spot on. By leaving the decision up to them we do not place expectations on them, rather we give them the information they need to make their own decisions without having to mindread.
Good stuff.
Peace Out
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Quoting Lis:jethro, my h just said last night he hates thinking about what he did, but even though he doesn't talk about it or bring it up, he always "knows" what he did. there is no getting away from it. i bet your w feels the same. hard to be loving to your s when you don't feel very loving towards yourself. don't give up yet. it certainly isn't fair but give her more time.
Well, this certainly makes sense; however, I kind of feel like I reached a threshold of tolerance. I've tolerated a bad R for a long time, then an even worse R while she was having an A. I don't feel as harsh as I might sound on my post, but I just feel as though my patience is running thin. I'm kind of fed up with having to bear the burden of this R for so long. I do very much appreciate you coming by. I suppose I just have to reach down even deeper to yank out more patience...
Quoting KAW:The ironic thing here Jethro, is in order to develop this new R, you will still need to continue invest the same amount of effort, if not more, and time as you have been up to now. How many women would you have to meet before finding the one that returns affection the way you are searching for and how long would that take. Do you say, I give you three months of dates before I move on?... The point I'm making here, Jethro, is Dbing your W or dating for a new prospect, it all takes effort and time ... no getting around that. At least, you know with your W, you had what you are seaching for once, it can be achieved again. With dating, its purely an unkown. At least this is the conclusion I came to.
KAW, funny enough, but this is pretty much my W's reason for us staying together whenever I have brought up my hesitation.
Quoting KAW:So try to hang in there for now Jethro. Like the typography of the world, your R is not flat. You may be transversing the plateau or the Great Plains or the open seas, but eventually the landscape will change. Even though, it may not be happen at the rate you desire, your W is going though some personal growth of her own. Lisa is right in that she has to work out coming to terms with what she did, but as your navigator she is telling you, you're heading in the right direction.
As usual, so eloquently said, KAW. Yeah, I'll hang for now. What choice do I have really...if not for me, then my children?
Quoting SBH:Can I say what you always tell me? These things take time. Be patient.
I know...I know... 2x4 please?
Quoting KAW:Jethro, the next time you want to "ask for what you want", don't directly ask for it. Don't phrase as it as an expectation - "if would be nice if you did A or B", but rather as an outcome of a choice she can make - "if I received A or B, this is how I would feel" and the choice is totally up to her.
I appreciate the suggestion, KAW, but I'm not sure that this would work with her. I'll give it a try just to see if it works, however.
Yo Utterly...thanks for coming by... I really like your tag-line.
Nothing new to report right now. Just typical day-to-day stuff, which many of us on the BB long for. I've been feeling a bit more level-headed the past couple of days and my PMA is back up a bit...which is good. In my situation I think it's paramount that I remain totally relaxed (and act as-if) around my W, as she tends to internalize everything...oftentimes without saying anything about it.
Really great stuff. Helped me too. I like the idea of phrasing requests in such a way as to offer choice... that might just help in my sitch as I know that years of direct requests did NOT work very well. Probably made CJ just feel more and more controlled.
Hang in there J. Plateaus are better than plummeting downhill plunges, aren't they? (ah...but they lack the drama and intensity, maybe that's why they are harder to traverse?)
The requests reminds me of something I learned in a parenting class. When I need my kids to do something, and they are fussing, I just rephrase the request and give them "options".
Something like this....
"Okay, you get to decide. You can clean you room, or you can watch TV. If you clean your room, then you can play with your friend tomorrow. If you watch tv, you cannot play with your friend tomorrow. Which would you prefer to do? A or B?"
Works every time!! Even when they choose the option I least like, they learn from it.
Other than the 1-2-3 STOP method that I learned to use when they are misbehaving, that was THE BEST parenting tip I ever received, and it works!!
Sorry to hog your thread Jethro. It just caught my attention. Maybe some of the bb parents would appreciate the tip.
Hey, thanks for stopping by my thread and commenting on the "memory" loss thing. It makes a lot of sense.
Glad to see your PMA back up there again. Keep the faith!
Me 47 Ex H 46 Bomb 9/02 D final 3/04 Ex H now married to OW
------------ This is surviving. There is no such thing as a normal life, there's just life. So get on with it and enjoy it!
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