H and I had lunch with my parents yesterday and the LL book came up. I explained the gist of the 5LL's and such, and they were quite interested.
I couldn't help but also think that people getting married, people married 2,4,6,46 years (like my folks) could still benefit from it!
I'm soooo glad your W liked the book and found it of such value. That's really excellent. And although you didn't get to talk about OM, at least you know now that she DOESN'T want to think about him and "it".
Sounds to me like your semantics argument of a while back might just be moot! (remember? the "sometimes" vs "less and less?" ).
Thanks for checking in on my thread, I finally have a lengthier update today.
Interesting conversation with the W last night. So, we're at a Karaoke bar because my W had the singing bug. Well, one thing led to another in our conversation and she simply said to me, "It must have been really hard to do what you did when I was acting the way I was." I played it cool, but man, just to hear those words from her mouth, for her to understand what it took for me to do what I did (what all of us here do), was so validating. And she kept talking about it and making simliar comments. I almost can't handle the way things are going...it's like a whirlwind. Things are not perfect, but hell, I can't complain. Things are better than they have been in years. Many years.
Now, I just have to get over the A. It's easier when she's the way she is lately, but I think on it every day. I'm afraid each time I tell her I love her. Heck, I'm gun-shy. I don't want to be trampled again... Unbelievable. I fight hard to get the R I want and now I'm "hesitant." This sh!t is hard...but not as hard as it was only a few months ago.
Jethro..thanks for advice.. It must have really been touching to have w say that about being hard for you to handle..I have hopes that h might say something like that someday...to let me know that I have stood by him through ups and downs. Thought about how all this started when he just up and quit his job of 22 years, 3 yeras ago..I supported him then too, was a little less patient, as $ was tight..ended up using most of his hefty profit sharing to get us through... I see the little things creeping out like you, then nothing for awhile. Lostlove said something in her post how it is too bad it took an a to change some things...I look back and think the same thing..but now am grateful something shook our m up..as we were going down a narow tunnel and not knowing what else exists outside of the safe world...I have so discovered myself andd I think h has to.
Take care..must go to church and help mil in kitchen for breakfast fundraiser...yipeee!!!
I am so happy for you. I wish my H could truly believe what Michele says (and he actually heard her say it in person!) and what you have discovered...that we don't have to go back to our M the way it was. We can make it the best it can be if we commit to it.
It's nice to see this work the way it should. You deserve much happiness, you are a wonderful man!
Sue, SB, PNT, RJJ, and MAL, thanks so much for stopping by.
I wish I had more good news to report, but alas, the roller coaster continues and my PMA is in the toilet. So, for about a week, my W was wonderfully attentive...acted like she really did love me. It was like I was in a different world--affection, happiness, attentiveness, daily sex (sorry all), spending quality time with the kids, acting positive, etc. All of the good stuff we all hope for. Well, for whatever reason, her PMA crashed. Not sure why, but it did. So, for the last week, I've not been doing well. I probably should have posted sooner, but didn't feel up to it. Hopefully, you guys have some insights.
So, like I said, the last week has sucked. My W has backed off quite a bit...not as bad as when she was in WA mode, but close. On Saturday, we got into an R talk that really got me down. She went on to tell me how she feels as though I'm going back to wanting to be around her all of the time, not doing things by myself, and smothering and putting further pressure on her. Well, my behavior has been no different towards her than it was 2 weeks ago when she was feeling great about everything. So, what gives? I simply told her that I've been trying to make sure we spend time together because it was the lack of that that I felt led her to have an A. I also told her that maybe I've been trying too hard, and that I want to do things by (and for) myself, but get guilty because of not spending enough time with the children, and being concerned because I don't want to repeat the past. (You see, I've been working a lot lately because of a project I'm on and have a little less time with the family, so it's that much more important to me to ensure I spend an appropriate amount of time with my children AND my W.) Her response was to give myself a break. Whatever...
On Saturday and Sunday I pretty much did my own thing, sometimes with the kids, sometimes by myself, and didn't interact with her all that much. More so on Sunday.
Guys, she's being fairly cold again and I don't like it. I'm totally sick of this sh!t. I give and give and give, try to do the right thing, and no matter how I approach it and do the right thing, I shoot myself in the foot. Our lack of spending quality time in the past (among other things) led her to have an A, and yet, when I try to do this she doesn't want it. On top of that, I don't feel as attracted to her lately and my feelings are pretty much shutting down. I don't want to feel this way, but WTF? I'm burned out. I'm tired of being the one to hold this R together. Yeah, she's back and trying a little harder, but I want a real R. I'm finding myself looking a little more closely at other women, I'm starting to fantasize about what it would be like without my W, I'm getting more and more upset about everything, dwelling on her A, my PMA is in the toilet, and more and more I don't really feel like putting out the effort. THIS SUCKS and I'm tired.
I think perhaps I need to totally back off again and just do my own thing. I don't even have a problem with that. In fact, I'd almost rather do that because I don't want to have to deal with her. Little does she know that it takes a lot of effort on my part to spend time with her when oftentimes I don't even feel like it. Hell, maybe I should tell her. I just don't like this empty feeling inside of me. I don't feel like arguing with her (it's just not worth it), but I also don't feel like being nice. I still can't believe that after all we've been through since we were so young, she'd have the gaul to have an A! Dammit!
Sorry everyone. This has been building for a while...
I know that I for one totally underastand your feelings!!! I just tend to rant and rave a bit more often about it.
I think that perhaps it is time for us to simply focus on ourselves and let whatever will be, be!!!
if we continue to be the ones to put in an overload of effort we will eventually burn out...these "pendulum flows" can really wear you down.
if we keep the focus on ourselves keep our own pma then perhaps when the pendulum flows away from us yet again...we wont be as effected by it and soon (hopefully though I'm getting pesemistic) our spouses will learn that they too have to put forth effort.
then again I did have another thought..perhaps it may not be a bad idea to let w know how you feel...that sometimes it does take effort to put on a happy face for her.
conciquences of this may be her saying "well then see...we don't belong together"
this is all so damn frustrating!!! I thought we grew up and got married...why now do I feel like I'm in highschool again????
Quote: then again I did have another thought..perhaps it may not be a bad idea to let w know how you feel...that sometimes it does take effort to put on a happy face for her.
conciquences of this may be her saying "well then see...we don't belong together"
Well, not sure how she'd take it. Probably just pressure to her. Every time I say, "W, it would be nice if you did X, Y, or Z," she responds with, "I've been doing A, B, and C. Can't you recognize that?" She does do some things, but she's defensive when I bring up things she doesn't do...then she feels pressure. So, how do I get what I feel I need in an R without ever telling her?!?! I don't think it can be done.
Damned if I do...damned if I don't... I try to communicate effectively with her, but it frequently falls on deaf ears.
Besides, LL, she knows that I put on a happy face even though I don't particularly feel like it. She seems happier when I act as-if, but then she gets what she wants and I do not...mostly it's in the context of her leaving home to go do something, whether it's with a friend or by herself. Our R suffered because she went outside of our M to fulfill her needs, and she continues to go outside our M to do stuff. I'm not saying doing things outside of a M isn't healthy (with friends and such), but not at the expense of not spending enough quality time together.
She's bailing again tonight, I'm going to be home late tomorrow night and Thursday night because of work, and she'll likely want to see her friend Wednesday night. So, already that's four nights of the week that will get toasted.
I'm just so pissed about hearing about how I'm crowding her again! Errr!!! It's such BS. Again, she's feeling crappy about herself and she focuses on our R as being a problem. God forbid that it's really about her and her not meeting her own needs. "Hey W, how about instead of going over to your friend's and getting drunk, stay at home and do a nice little project to boost your PMA? Take care of yourself for crying out loud...because pretty soon I'm not going to be around to do it for you!"
I'm tired of being Mr. Niceguy. I'm tired of having to deal with the A by myself and not putting pressure on my W. I'm tired of not getting what I want from my M. I'm tired...
).
I played it cool, but man, just to hear those words from her mouth, for her to understand what it took for me to do what I did (what all of us here do), was so validating. And she kept talking about it and making simliar comments. I almost can't handle the way things are going...it's like a whirlwind. Things are not perfect, but hell, I can't complain. Things are better than they have been in years. Many years. 
Well, my behavior has been no different towards her than it was 2 weeks ago when she was feeling great about everything. So, what gives? I simply told her that I've been trying to make sure we spend time together because it was the lack of that that I felt led her to have an A. I also told her that maybe I've been trying too hard, and that I want to do things by (and for) myself, but get guilty because of not spending enough time with the children, and being concerned because I don't want to repeat the past. (You see, I've been working a lot lately because of a project I'm on and have a little less time with the family, so it's that much more important to me to ensure I spend an appropriate amount of time with my children AND my W.) Her response was to give myself a break. Whatever...
I still can't believe that after all we've been through since we were so young, she'd have the gaul to have an A! Dammit!