Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums THE SEX-STARVED MARRIAGE Where did my summer go?

Good for you, Cobra. I am most impressed.

You are not sure why... she is how she is... Mrs. Cobra that is... becacuse Cobra had not accepted himself as he is. No more than BF has.....

But continues to BE BF. As does Cobra.

Corri

Okay, let me knock a couple of things out of the way.

Have you been in touch with other man? If not, have you been spending a lot of time rehashing the separation and remembering how you felt with other man and about the absence of your husband?

I am asking because the separation, your husband's bad behavior (walking away), and your relationship with the other man, all add up to a reality that your marriage, and current relationship with your husband simply won't bear. You can't compare how you felt then, and derive usable information about what your should do now. Doing so will result in a lot of nebulous, undefined, soft-edged dissatisfaction with your current relationship.

If you want to get a grip on what is real, and what matters in the long run, assess your marriage as a snapshot in time as it exists right now. Make a list of your observations, both good and bad. In one column, write down what is right about it. In an adjacent column, write down what needs work or what is bad about your marriage.

If the good parts make up the majority of the list, and the bad parts appear treatable, then relax about your choice to take him back.

For what it is worth, I know of few long term relationships where one or both partners haven't had to decide whether it was wise to continue on or not. That decision is made multiple times in some relationships. Generally speaking, if there isn't abuse, addiction, or mental health issues, most marriages are worth working at, and that decision can be made without introspection in depth.

If your husband hasn't made reparation to you for his actions, and that would include a continuing effort to meet your most important needs (sex being at the top of your list), then he needs to be told what you expect of him in no uncertain terms, and what the repercussions are for failure. Not a threat, but a very simple communication that your marriage is teetering on the brink, and he holds the weight in balance.

If you are allowing your interactions with the other man to taint your current situation, then you really need to stop. You can't let a fantasy relationship potentially destroy a real one.

All the best,
-NOPkins-

I need to address Nops concern first.


There has been zero contact with any OM. Not that I haven't been tempted, but I am quite proud of myself for not going there. I know it only complicates an already complicated situation and frankly, I just don't have it in me to deal with more than my M at this point.
Have I been rehashing? Maybe a little but not the sexual R with OM. I have been having a hard time accepting the fact that my H left me with two kids (ages 2 and 4 at the time) and seemed to really make such a clean break during that horrible time in our M. Here I am struggling to figure this all out and the one thing that I KNOW I will not do is break up our family with the kids being so young. I just won't. He did. That is hard for me to reconcile in my head. I hold no respect for that (obviously) and so that is still the greatest hurdle for me to overcome. Way beyond the sexual stuff.

The "good" column far outweighs the "bad" column. The problem is that the two items I have listed on the "bad" column (he left and sexually LD) are two major issues that will continue to be present in our M. I truly don't think he can change his sex drive and he certainly cannot change history, so it's all in whether or not I accept the M where it is now and really work on making it better as time goes by. He says he is committed to working on this indefinitely. He is trying, it is just slow going.

I agree. There is no question in my mind about staying in the M with the kids being so young. Maybe I will never change my mind because they will always be my kids, who knows. Maybe this issue won't be as much of a concern in 10 years. Who knows. All I do know is that he is good to me now despite all of our past issues and he does want to try to make it even better. That is enough to keep me in this M.

LFL

I'm assuming you mean my H's views on feminism, no? As I've already stated, I hardly would qualify (I think) as a feminist. But I'm not anti-feminist either.
I had an interesting discussion with H last night. I think part of his views have evolved out of his dislike of his mother. He said."Well, you know where most of this mess started from - my mom. We were not allowed to express any negative feelings in our house."
So no big shocker, that he was the perfect "people pleaser" most of the time and certainly didn't feel comfortable expressing his feelings with me.
I also think when we had kids and I became a SAHM that he subconsciously viewed me as his mother who was also a SAHM with two kids. I think he holds a lot of anger and disgust towards his mother and was never able to get that verbalized. He always acted as though he had a great mom. It hasn't been until our reconciliation that he vocalizes his annoyance and anger at his mom. This has actually helped our own R/M very much.
How's that for FOO analysis!
So I think part of his attraction to an independent woman is that he sees them as the opposite of this mother (who basically fell apart when his father left her and continues to rage at his father to this day). She's a real treat.
Anyways, there's some pieces of the puzzle.

LFL

Thanks for the laugh RJ.

LFL

LFL,

Holding on to resentment from the past is not good. My W does this too. Drags up all her past complaints, can’t let things go, needs them to justify her anger, to justify her distance, to protect herself. At the heart of all this I believe is her inability to trust, her lack of faith in people. I don’t get that feeling from you, that you lack faith, rather you seem to hold onto your anger for other reasons which I’m not sure of.

I also suspect your appetite for sex will change as your M changes, as the level of validation changes. I do believe that a strong sex drive can go hand-in-hand with aggression and aggression can be focused on trying to wrestle the M back to where it “should be,” ie, control. If you can lessen the battle and the aggression

Regarding your H:
He said."Well, you know where most of this mess started from - my mom. We were not allowed to express any negative feelings in our house."

So no big shocker, that he was the perfect "people pleaser" most of the time and certainly didn't feel comfortable expressing his feelings with me.

Does he get to express his feelings with you now? I’m asking whether HE feels he can, not whether YOU feel he can. I know your answer – “Yes, he can say anything he wants to me.” But he may not really feel this way. He may not even know how he feels about it. He may not know whether his is truly feel to say what he thinks or feels some level of intimidation because he has no good standard of “freedom” from which to judge, KWIM?

Understanding his issues with his mom is a good start, but that is level 1. Level 2 is how did those feelings that he experienced with his mom translate into how he feels with you and treats you? Has he read NMMNG? Perhaps what is needed is for him to turn up his masculinity to better match yours.

He always acted as though he had a great mom. It hasn't been until our reconciliation that he vocalizes his annoyance and anger at his mom. This has actually helped our own R/M very much.

Depending on how much damage was imposed by his mom, there may still be work to do here. If he believed he had a great mom, then I think there is a LOT of buried stuff. Kids who have an abusive mother do not come around to thinking she was great for no reason. The fact he once believed this points to his need to build a fantasy view of his past and block out the negative, for only in that way can he shut out the hurt and shame he felt as a kid. I thought the same of my mother too, long ago (which is also what I see in Fearless).

So I think part of his attraction to an independent woman is that he sees them as the opposite of this mother (who basically fell apart when his father left her and continues to rage at his father to this day).

OK, so his mother had a temper, probably rages at the kids, put up a tough mean image of herself, which turned out to be all bluff. She was hiding her vulnerability and fears. Just a guess here, but I would bet she also turn to your H (since he was the people pleaser) to sooth and comfort her. She dumped all her problems on him and smothered him with more emotional baggage than a kid can handle. He was engulfed.

So what does he look for in a W? Someone independent, strong, like his mother, but not so he can rescue her, but so that strong women can stand on her own and not ask him of any emotional needs. He wants distance. Getting too close is dangerous for him. So he is the avoider, you the pursuer, even though you tend to run. Then you get ticked at him because he won’t respond to your “running away” style of pursuit (if you can follow that). Can you see where the work needs to be done for you and your H?

Yes, he will make his once a month advance. Depending on my mood at the time, it will either be great or it will just fall flat and then we wait until next month. Ugh. You see the problems I have with this I'm sure. It's just not coming from any place of desire and feels more like a monthly chore. I'm stubborn too so sometimes I'd rather just go without the sex than have crappy sex. But that attitude leads to all sorts of other problems so I need to just stop doing that. But it's hard to change old habits.

LFL

I probably am a little bit of both. Why do I have to be one or the other? They can balance each other out in some healthy ways I think. Not that I've found the right balance yest.


Well, I guess I don't like how it is classified as "masculine" energy. Maybe I am not following what Corri was saying. Feel free to clarify Corri.

LFL

I'm not exactly sure either although it is asking a lot to just trust H again after what happened. The resentment/anger is just a form of self-protection. If he does this again, I will have no one else to blame but myself, I feel like.
"Fool me once...."


That is a great point. I even commented to him last night "You have masters degree in psychology and you are just realizing this crap." Or something like that. It wasn't in a mean way and he took it the way it was intended. He basically said Corri's line "sometimes you can't see what you see until you see it." It's still a work in progress.

I will look into the book, although he doesn't really read pop psych books. I think he may need to explore this topic more.

So true. He does build up fantasy images. He did it with us and and he certainly did it with his parents. I specifically remember when we first met that he described his family as "The Cleevers" from leave it to Beaver. I have brought up since how distorted that view was and he agrees but doesn't really see how f-ed up his thinking was. It frustrates me that he doesn't really "get it." And why did he feel he needed to present that image to me? See how the beginning of our R was based on dishonesty? Maybe not intentional, but it was fake. I hate that.


I don't know how much she actually raged. She is the type to plaster on that fake smile but also gives you that subtle look that H learned meant "act like everything is great or you are gonna get it later on." I see her do it to this day. Although sometimes she snaps at people because she can't hold that fake smile forever.
I remember when we were dating, I went over to his house (he was still living at home with his mom and sister) and his father had stopped by to pick something up from his mom. Well his mom thought her ex had taken something out of the house and started screaming "You Azzhole!" out the front door and my H was absolutely mortified. That is the only time I have ever seen his mom really lose her sh#t. I thought it was hilarious because this "Leave it to Beaver" family was anything but. It made them real. But H still swept it under the rug. In fact, he often said in our M that were were NOT going to be like that. He insisted it would be different. But clearly that was not to be.

That is a good analysis. I'm still working on a strategy to get this on the right track. Please feel free to give me your suggestions.

LFL

LFL,

I'm not exactly sure either although it is asking a lot to just trust H again after what happened. The resentment/anger is just a form of self-protection. If he does this again, I will have no one else to blame but myself, I feel like.
"Fool me once...."

Understood, but you know not to make this into a self-fulfilling prophecy.

"You have masters degree in psychology and you are just realizing this crap."

I’m not sure how much they teach in school about relationships. My W has a bachelors in psychology and she didn’t learn squat about this. She knows about Freud, Jung, etc, but that has absolutely no value for understanding a marriage.

So true. He does build up fantasy images. He did it with us and and he certainly did it with his parents. I specifically remember when we first met that he described his family as "The Cleevers" from leave it to Beaver. I have brought up since how distorted that view was and he agrees but doesn't really see how f-ed up his thinking was. It frustrates me that he doesn't really "get it." And why did he feel he needed to present that image to me? See how the beginning of our R was based on dishonesty? Maybe not intentional, but it was fake. I hate that.

Buy this book too and get him to read it: “The Narcissistic Family : Diagnosis and Treatment” by Stephanie Donaldson-Pressman, Robert M. Pressman. The authors speak DIRECTLY to the Beaver Cleever family.

I thought it was hilarious because this "Leave it to Beaver" family was anything but. It made them real. But H still swept it under the rug. In fact, he often said in our M that were were NOT going to be like that. He insisted it would be different. But clearly that was not to be.

Be careful here. My W takes great pride in pointing out how dysfunctional my family is. It is her way of being one-up, to compensate for her shame of what her messed up family was like. Even though I understand why she does this, it doesn’t sit well with me. In fact. It still ticks me off, not because of my family’s past, but because she uses it as a weapon.

That is a good analysis. I'm still working on a strategy to get this on the right track. Please feel free to give me your suggestions.

I’ve mentioned this book several times, but it might help your H. “Facing Love Addiction : Giving Yourself the Power to Change the Way You Love” by Pia Mellody, Andrea Wells Miller gives a nice overview of the pursuer/avoider relationship and how the avoider is running away from engulfment.