Differentiation doesn't mean you stop communicating, or telling someone how you feel. You just give up the expectation that they have to/need to DO something about it.
Differentiation doesn't mean you stop communicating, or telling someone how you feel.
No but if someone is not willing to communicate with you then how do you communicate with them? If you are pissed off with their pissed off attitude whose feelings are they? *I* am quite happy in myself. If H were not around at all then I am totally fine. The second he steps through the door the atmosphere chills by 10 degrees. Are those my feelings or his? If I am fused then I would say "you're making me feel terrible". If I don't want to be fused then I try to detatch from the atmosphere he is generating. Or am I getting it all wrong?
Karen, Yes I guess he is grumpy about getting older, but he is always grumpy about something, and it is always me that puts up with someone acting like they ought to be rescued but that I ought to know how to do that without being told.
Thanks for the hug - I needed that.
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
No but if someone is not willing to communicate with you then how do you communicate with them? If you are pissed off with their pissed off attitude whose feelings are they? *I* am quite happy in myself. If H were not around at all then I am totally fine. The second he steps through the door the atmosphere chills by 10 degrees. Are those my feelings or his? If I am fused then I would say "you're making me feel terrible". If I don't want to be fused then I try to detatch from the atmosphere he is generating. Or am I getting it all wrong?
I've been talking to GP about the whole "man cave" thing. He totally recognizes the tendency in himself. The way he views the issue is that he thinks it is equivalent to "cheating" on a woman in a relationship. I think what he would recommend that you do would be to try to open up the lines of communication with your H by saying something like "I sense that you are feeling a lot of resentment towards me and perhaps a sense of overall disappointment in our relationship. Maybe you feel like you shouldn't or can't talk to me about the problem because of the manner in which I have reacted in the past. However, if we don't address the white elephant sitting on the giant concrete wall in our relationship currently things will never improve so why don't you try to trust me a little bit and speak your mind/heart."
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
No but if someone is not willing to communicate with you then how do you communicate with them? If you are pissed off with their pissed off attitude whose feelings are they?
Those are your feelings. You decide if you want to share them or not, because you are being Who You Are... kwis? What he is doing/being, may or may not have anything to do with you, but until you say something, you don't know. If he isn't willing to tell you, you can't help that. THEN you go about your business.
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The second he steps through the door the atmosphere chills by 10 degrees.
You are the one feeling that, and that is something going on with you.
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If I am fused then I would say "you're making me feel terrible". If I don't want to be fused then I try to detatch from the atmosphere he is generating. Or am I getting it all wrong?
It is your conclusion that he is the one who is 'generating' the atmosphere.... and based on that assumption of truth, you react or act. But you are missing a step.
Have you ever said to him..."wow, it feels 10 degrees chillier to me when we are in the same room together. Do you get that feeling at all?"
It does make sense a little. However I have picked him up on this before and he will insist there is nothing wrong and I'm imagining it. Then what do you know a day or two later there will be a big row, he will own up to what has been bugging him and the atmosphere will lift.
I know H knows he does it and I know he does it on purpose. A few years ago I was telling him about someone who'd handed in his notice at work and didn't really want to work the notice but just be paid off to the end of the month. He manipulated the situation by coming in every day and "killing the atmosphere" - this is something this guy told me. So I was telling H about it, I can't remember the exact conversation we had but basically he was happy to admit that he is the master at killing the atmospheres himself.
He walks into the house and he is cold and distant. I act like he is fine and come up and kiss him and smile warmly as if he were fine. The chill does not lift. I don't see how it can be just my conclusion that he is the one 'generating' the atmosphere.
Hi how was your day? "Fine" (said in a voice indicating "not fine" but I don't care to go into it)
We're having meatballs for dinner, it'll be ready in 20 minutes "none for me thank you"
"What do you fancy doing this evening?" Look of disdain (as if I have a choice other than to get through yet more work on your behalf) "I've got work to do"
And that will be the sum of our conversation for the evening.
..."wow, it feels 10 degrees chillier to me when we are in the same room together. Do you get that feeling at all?"
I could say that to him. I can imagine his reaction he would see it as a sarcastic/bitchy variation on "what's wrong" and he would most likely just say "not really" in icy tones.
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
So I said "would you have just gone off to France then without talking to me about it"
He said "er, YES"
What in the he11 is THAT about?
ETA: And yes, someone else CAN chill the atmosphere. There are two people in the room and each does not exist in a vacuum. I'm reminded of a Thanksgiving Dinner years ago at a beautiful restaurant where my mother got in a snit and when she was served complimentary champagne, she put a leaf of lettuce in hers and sat staring at the table without saying a word for the entire meal. Yeah, you can ignore that. But who wants to be AROUND it.
Trying to function around a moper is like my definition of living with someone who is depressed: "It's like trying to play with a dead dog. No matter how many times you throw that ball, the dog just won't run."
It just seems like the more I try to differentiate the more he just sees it as some kind of abandonment
Of course this happens. This is the part about "if you change, they will change." Except, they try to get you to change back to the way you were before so they DON'T have to change.
All this is about is that he has actually noticed.
So if he doesn't want to talk about it, if he wants to be bitchy about it... let him. Move on with your day. Let him sit in his office all night... yes... it affects your life.
So does rain. So does snow. So does the sun. But you make the best of those. To bemoan the weather, and ask why is it the way it is... is kind of useless... kwis?
And Fran, if he tries to pick a fight with you in a few days... you don't have to fight. (Even though it would probably feel really, really good.)
Corri:So does rain. So does snow. So does the sun. But you make the best of those. To bemoan the weather, and ask why is it the way it is... is kind of useless... kwis? I do know what you're saying but it just makes me feel like I should move somewhere with a better climate
Anyway an update: The weekend was interesting. H's folks arrived as planned and we had a pleasant evening with the kids staying up late etc.
The next day his folks offered to babysit if we wanted to go out for the evening. At the time I couldn't think of anything worse and I was sure H felt the same way. I tried to act like I was game if he was. H equivocated over it.
We all went out for the afternoon to a museum but H was still moody and silent as he has been this past fortnight. His folks noticed it too.
Anyhow he took a call from a client late in the afternoon which perked him up, as this guy who has been put in charge of their IT and has been trying to make his mark by showing how little the organisation really needs H has been f@cking up and was on the phone begging him to come and sort everything out because his a$$ is on the line.
We went out and had a nice meal together. H was in a pretty good mood because of the change in climate this phone call had brought about. So we had a fun evening.
In the morning H was horny. I really wasn't up for it, I have been feeling emotionally drained these past 2 weeks by his behaviour and I just didn't like the whole "oh look the sun's out again now I can have nooky with my W" attitude. In fact it was more of a "everything else is fine so come and sort the sex part out for me now". While I was still tussling with the issue with his hands roaming around D6 came into the bedroom and jumped into the bed next to me. Frankly I felt relieved.
So the rest of the day was spent just pottering about doing family stuff in a reasonably easy-going fashion.
We watched some TV that evening and I was trying hard to think of a way to broach the subject of how hard-going I have been finding him over the last couple of weeks but just couldn't make a start. So a bit later we went to bed and H could see my face not looking too happy so he asked me what was wrong and I told him.
We had the usual "well when I do talk to you you just attack me". And "So you know how much pressure I've been under and you wait until I've cheered up again to knock me back down"
With me trying to stick to my own feelings. "I've been feeling hurt and shut out" rather than "You won't talk". Anyway after he'd thrown a few insults at me I tried to get him to see that that was just a way to shut me up because he felt uncomfortable with what I was trying to say. That I'm miserable, that I'd like us to work as a team, that I'd like my emails (about finances) to be answered rather than ignored. That if he doesn't feel like talking he could at least give me a hug or something.
Then he said with a kind of finality. "Well maybe we just can't communicate". After a pause I asked him what he meant. "Well I really do want to communicate with you but you don't seem to hear anything I say".
Left there in that lonely place feeling like he was saying we just can't make a go of things I realised how much I do want to, not just for the sake of the kids. It was like him saying that stripped everything away, all my D fantasies, and he's bad for the kids anyway, and if it weren't for them I wouldn't be here.
Well can you please just give me a hug. So he did. Then it all went a bit weird. I had a really strong feeling of needing him to press his chest up hard against mine so I asked him get on top of me and crush me with his manly chest. He did but was kind of laughing and wanting to get off and acting like I would suffocate. Underneath him I was just kind of sobbing but they were good sobs that needed to happen. But he got off and started messing around in a silly/humourous way doing belly flops on me and stuff.
I can't really describe it but it was like something which I intuitively knew would make us feel closer and he kind of seemed to get scared of that and turned it into some silly horseplay thing.
The next thing was an attempt at sex which went nowhere. I ended up by saying "I think both of us want to be ravished and neither of us is in the mood to do the ravishing". He agreed, so we just fell asleep. It was the least rancourous failed sex attempt we have ever had.
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
