I swear we're married to the same H! We love 'em because they're so kind and caring, but vulnerable women out there think they're *safe* because they're married. Then they form strong emotional attachments, which lead to EA, which lead to PA, which leads to WAS. With *friends* like that, who needs enemies?
They're SO blind. I think that's the same conversation I had w/my H, too, and it backfired. I know we shouldn't talk to them about our R, but we just want them to SNAP OUT OF IT!
He keeps saying, *I haven't abandoned you -- I still pay the bills, don't I?*
The bottom line: women, NEVER confide in men if you're not related/married to them. Men, NEVER be that *shoulder* for any women you're not related/married to. Single, married -- it doesn't matter. The forum is a good place to get the opposite gender's perspective, though, as long as it doesn't cross that line. Sometimes I see people crossing that line even here, and I cringe.
My H also 'uses' the fact that he is an amazing father to receive 'kudos' from women. I told him a long time ago that women, especially married w/kids, eat that stuff up, love seeing a man so involved with his kids.
Speaking about cringing, I look at couples all over the place and think "Could I trust that woman?" or "I wonder if that man has cheated on his wife?". I never thought these type of things before, never lost 'faith' in the basics of life.
I agree with you about crossing the line sometimes, and can totally see how innocent people start up meeting people online because they are lonely (not here, chat rooms and things like that) and then it leads elsewhere. That is what happened to my H, he became the caregiver, stayed at home, fell into my routine of playgroups (going through a MLC and also a 'breadwinner' thing), met OW (my friend before all this) and she wasn't happy in her marriage. They became friends, met emotional needs that WE should have been meeting (or allowed to meet), then the physical stuff happens. I know my H never meant for this to happen, but he is responsible for his actions and could have said "No" at any time.
PW, Hope's threads are under Hopeless. She however did not have a good outcome. She is now divorced, but seems to be doing okay. She finally came to the conclusion that things wouldn't get any better with he ex. Luckily, they did not have children so she won't have to have any contact with him anymore. She is now posting under Surviving the Big D. She has now dropped the -less off of her name.
Life's challenges are not supposed to paralyze you, they're supposed to help you discover who you are. -- Bernice Johnson Reagon
She however did not have a good outcome. She is now divorced, but seems to be doing okay. She finally came to the conclusion that things wouldn't get any better with he ex.
Uh-oh. I don't want to read it, then. I'm looking for as much positive information as possible! I don't want to be *hopeless.*
Or maybe I should read it anyway, just to find out what *not* to do.
Umm...I'm with you let's stick with the positive ones. Talk to Saffie and Sara they have turned the situations around.
Yes, let's focus on the positive! I'd been so depressed reading a lot of the posts, and it made me not want to put any more effort into saving this marriage. So many people giving up.
The thing is, I STILL know that my H is a wonderful person, and he was a great husband in many ways. He's always been extremely insecure, though, and he complained for years that he just wanted to feel attractive/desired. He constantly asked me what I thought about his appearance. Any time I tried to compliment him, though, he brushed it off, *Oh, you're just saying that because you're my wife.*
He was a bit of a nerd in school, and never dated much or had a serious relationship until he met me. I fell madly in love with him, and I continue to be in love with him even now (in spite of all this). I played the field a LOT, kissed a lot of frogs, etc. but I knew he was THE ONE for me.
I'm not desperate. I know if the worst case scenario (D) happened, I'd be able to move on with my life, and find a great man. Ironically, he can't stand the thought of me with another man! He told my daughter that he would *flip out* if that ever happened. I don't want to play stupid games and try to make him jealous, though. Maybe a compromise somewhere between GAL and *make him jealous*?
I DID sit next to an attractive man at church today who was by himself, and I thought, hmmm.
Sorry, I'm on a tangent. What was I saying, again? Oh yes, let's keep our thoughts focused on positive things!
Please let me know which threads to follow that will be encouraging!
Ironically, he can't stand the thought of me with another man! He told my daughter that he would *flip out* if that ever happened. I don't want to play stupid games and try to make him jealous, though. Maybe a compromise somewhere between GAL and *make him jealous*?
I don't know. That worked with my husband. Keep looking sexy and if you don't feel comfortable having sex with your husband don't... be unavailable. You don't have to tell him what you are doing, who you are seeing, just be evaisive. That's not a game. Your life isn't his business right now, and flirting with OM doesn't mean you are sleeping with them. Let him see, hear and imagine what he's missing.
And don't think OW doesn't "play games" to manipulate him.
There is no arriving, ever. It is all a continual becoming.
Below is some information I just copied from an informational forum on this site. Overall each situation is different so you'll have to consider your own carefully. I know in my own, I think ML brought my husband and I closer. Of course, my husband was dead set on divorce and trying to get everything completed as quickly as possible... so I figured while I was married I might as well have sex. Hey, all my seprated and divorce friends were going out and sometimes sleeping with different guys they met and I didn't do that!!! I did feel in spite of OW, my husband was probably safer than most of the guys out there (and I know he always uses protection) so I felt for me it was okay. I think ML made it more difficult for him to lose me. For once in our marriage he actually got jealous!!! I think that was something he needed to feel. He needed to realize I'm an attractive woman, nice, caring, trustworthy, loving, forgiving AND great in bed!!!... and there are plenty of other guys out there who would be thrilled to have that. _________________________________________________________ Greetings! This was written by Michele. /Tia ------------------------------------------- Many times people wonder whether or not to have sex with their estranged spouses. Here's my response:
As I always say in my seminars, there are no single, one-size-fits-all solutions to any situation, this situation included. However, I do have some thoughts about the issue of having sex with your spouse when separated either physically or emotionally and/or if there is another person in the picture.
For starters, if you do decide to be physical, it's essential to use caution and be smart about protecting yourself from sexually transmitted diseases.
Having said that, let's explore the emotional side of things. If your spouse is interested in being sexual but shows ambivalence about or even disinterest in your marriage, it makes sense that you might feel uncertain about being close physically. You might worry about feeling used or cheapened in some way. IF this is an overriding feeling, don't do it. However, I look at it another way.
Sexuality is a special way that people connect with each other. Although some people have sex simply to experience a pleasant physical sensation, that is rarely all that happens. Having sex leads to having emotions. If someone is doubting his or her commitment to a marriage, experiencing feelings of connection during lovemaking is a good thing and it might increase the chances that the confused spouse will feel inclined to work on the marriage. Obviously, it doesn't always work this way and as with everything else, the proof is in the pudding. But if you're willing/wanting to be intimate, it makes sense to me to do so and then watch the results. See how your spouse reacts and how you feel about it after the fact.
I know many couples whose physical relationship saved the day. Even when they couldn't talk, constantly fought, their lovemaking was the lifeline between them. Eventually, because their physical connection reminded them that beneath their problems, there was still a lot of love, they were able to work things out. I say, "stack the deck in your favor, if you can."
But not everyone feels comfortable with this solution, and that's okay. You have to feel in your heart that you are doing the right thing. If it feels wrong to you, don't do it. If it feels okay, comfortable or even exciting, give yourself permission to enjoy it.
One word of caution. If you've been intimate with your commitment-phobic spouse for a long time and nothing improves, it's time to rethink your actions. Your relationship may have become too comfortable. Perhaps s/he is taking things for granted. Time to consider a change.
Michele
There is no arriving, ever. It is all a continual becoming.
Just catching up on this thread, and a couple comments.
Yes, there are men on this board who left without having someone to go to. BUT these were men whose wifes were having the affair, or some other problem situation (drugs, etc.). And they separated themselves from the situation. I think you're right that men (at least the men who get married) DO want to be in a relationship rather than be alone.
As to your bigger question, whether to ML with your husband or not, I do think it's completely different when there's a *known* physical relationship outside the marriage. You seriously need to consider your own health as a separate issue from whether you will get your H back by complying or denying.
Go to the county health dept and pick up every brochure on STDs that they have. Read them, then leave them out where H can read them. If he wants to ML again, you will have to ask him whether he uses condoms with OW, and if he says yes then you have to decide whether to trust his word. Or, just insist that "as long as we don't have an exclusive physical relationship, he's going to have to use a condom."
That's just the facts. If that turns him off, too bad. And all this assumes that you decide that you DO want to ML with the cheating bast@rd.
