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WTG Fran. ^5

RJ,
Just read your post where you said RealJourney = NewJourney (=InHerJourney).

I wondered whether it was you

Thanks for all the nice little validations you have been giving me. How are you doing these days?

Fran

Thanks Lou ^5

I would ask if you had an older sister but that would make me out to sound like a bigamist.

Let me just say wish BB and I could get something like that going.

Lou

Hi Fran, Yup, it's me, always on some sort of journey. I was hoping at some point to become JourneysEnd, but I am beginning to figure out that you never really get through with this process, do you? I picked " real" because it means genuine, authentic, whole, etc., and I'd like to get to a place of truly knowing and defining myself, as well as having confidence and asserting that self. The more I work on me, the happier I will be and the healthier my relationships will be. Well, that's my theory anyway, lol.

Thanks for asking about me. I will have to start another thread one of these days, but overall, I am doing well. The sexual mimatches still occur, but H and I have been radically honest with each other ( at this point there is nothing to lose) and we seem to get through the issues as they arise.

Hope you are having a nice evening. La Shana Tova to all ( Happy New Year) from your Jewish board friend, RJ/NJ/IHJ

This is how I'm feeling at the moment:

I have no real R with my H. In Mojo's words he is the irritating and sometimes rude boarder who helps pay the bills. I felt good about the way I handled things last week, but that still leaves me with no real R with my H. He hangs around my house, smoking, sometimes interacting with the kids, interacting quite a lot with the dog. When I leave him alone enough and don't initiate anything, such as a conversation, or a kiss or anything at all, he will occasionally (like once every week or two) initiate sex with me. That's OK I like sex. But the rest is just so boring and nothingy and there isn't a damn thing I can do about it. He is who he is. Not only that but he his an alcoholic and therefore only half present at the best of times.

When H and I got together I gave him a philosophy text to read (Berkeley's Principles of Human Knowledge) he read it. But didn't have much to say about it - in fact he didn't have anything to say about it. Not even "well that was a pile of crap wasn't it". I should have stopped the R right there. It didn't strike me as much of a red flag at the time. But when you add in: not liking music, not liking the same kind of food, not being willing to engage in a debate about anything at all let alone philosophy, not having the same parenting values, not being able to balance a check book, smoking, not looking after yourself physically, not going on holiday with us, etc etc. Where's the R?

So I have no R (despite working on this problem with the help of these boards and various R books for four years now) with the father of my children.

What comes first? Me and my life or my kids and their well-being as kids that grow up in an ostensibly two parent home?

Fran

Hi Fran, Is your H someone who keeps his thoughts and feelings hidden? My H is, and I am learning that there is a lot more to the man than meets the eye. For instance, we were watching that TV show I mentioned on the other thread ( the HBO series Tell Me Like It Is). There was so much going on with that show, yet the only comment my H made was that he liked a character's house! Yesterday I realized I was hungry for some dialogue about it, from him...what did he think? What interested ( or didn't interest ) him? So I asked him about it, and he brushed me off by saying it was stupid. But then a surprising thing happened...instead of trying to get a response, or just shutting down my thoughts( which would have lead to resentment), I just started talking about the show. And to my surprise, my H joined in, and had so much to say! I was shocked by the level of thought, but didn't let on.

I wonder if there is a lot going on in your man's head, yet due to personality/character reasons he just can't come forward so readily. Finding a way to bridge the gap could be an exciting venture for you.

Yes Journey he is. I do get occasional glimpses that he has had some deep thoughts and it is a surprise that they exist. I think I have a couple of problems though with your suggestion about finding a way to bridge that gap. The first problem is that I am feeling so DONE trying with that man. And the second problem is he tends to do what Corri described her H doing and just glaze over when I start talking about something that interests me. He is a conflict avoider big time. So if we were to start having a discussion about a TV show and I had a different POV to him it would p!ss him off. Because I already know this I tend to try and be more easy on him and keep my own POV more to myself just in an effort to get him to open up some. But when I do that I end up feeling frustrated or else I just get bored myself hearing him talking about something in a way I don't agree with.

For example, when Tony Blair was first voted in as our prime minister although I have been a life long labour supporter and was completely happy they finally won an election - I still didn't like Tony. I just felt there was something shifty about him. Anyway if I said anything my H would always be defending him, which is OK he has his view I have mine, but then if I pointed out any flaws in his argument he would just get p!ssed off with me, he wouldn't engage. As far as he is concerned disagreeing with someone is rude.

So to him having a free and frank exchange of views on politics or education or modern art or whatever is a painful process he would rather not engage in. He either just wants to say his piece and have me go "oh OK I never thought of it that way", or say nothing.

At the end of the day what I am asking is why in a marriage should I put up with someone who keeps their thoughts to themselves anymore than I should put up with someone who keeps their c0ck to themselves - kwis?

I'm just so bored of this.

Fran

Yeah, I kwys.

It's tiring to think of ways to make up for someone's deficiencies. That's why I tried to phrase it as a challenge to be undertaken.

The thing that has changed is that there is a feeling in the air that he is doing his part, too. It's not as one sided so I am less burnt out. At least for today,lol.

Since posting on 11th September and getting bouquets/plaudits/rave reviews and high fives from you guys I have been doing my best to keep up the good work.

However it seems to be resulting in more and more of a haughty silence from my H. He continues to lead his own life in a parallel mode seemingly avoiding interacting as much as possible.

Today is his birthday, things went according to plan this morning, the kids and I gave him cards and presents and he received them graciously.

Then I mentioned to him (because I thought I better not leave it as a total surprise) that his parents had a plan to come down and take pot luck on him being in. I told him that I had explained to them that I didn't know what he was doing and that he might be out.

He said he had planned to go out to someone's leaving party at a client. This is his really big client and he knows everyone that works there and they have about 3 or 4 leaving parties a year which are usually good fun for him to attend. He didn't seem resentful about his parents coming down and just said he would have to look in quickly at the party and then come home.

Then he said "lucky I didn't book the ferry to France for tomorrow"

WTF?!? I had no clue he had an inkling to do that.

So I said "would you have just gone off to France then without talking to me about it"

He said "er, YES"

Because we were busy getting kids ready for school etc and already running late because of the birthday thing, I didn't say any more.

It just seems like the more I try to differentiate the more he just sees it as some kind of abandonment and that puts him in f*ck you mode.