Thank you for your advice. Yes, the romantic gestures and special trips have all been part of the package. Maybe some people don't know what they have until they loose it or start to loose it. I guess I'm just at a different place than my W. Of course due to the starvation. Let me also add that for me the sex is vital but also affection is as equally important. I guess thats how us Latin men are wired, at least for this one.
To respond to, "May I ask why you expect the husbands to act UNCONDITIONALLY to help the women meet his needs CONDITONALLY? Why do you not expect the women to act UNCONDITIONALLY?" Excuse my ignorance....and truly, I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but I guess I don't know what you mean by the question. If I implied that I expected the H or the W to do anthing like that--I did not mean for it to sound that way. I would like for you to answer what you mean by "why do you not expect the women to act unconditionally". Is it b/c I suggested the men do things to romance them before going to bed? Perhaps I am totally misunderstanding here. If that is it, I am not suggesting that it is a "service and reward" type of relationship. It is merely the way of the female nature. Just b/c we get married does not stop the desire to be seduced and romanced by the male.
I was under the impression that starvinmarvin thought that it was his W's duty to meet his HD. In fact, he said in one post, "Your absolouetly right about my responsibility in holding her accountable about my sexual desires. If fact throughout my 20 years of marriage I have discussed this issue and the importance it has to me until I am blue in the face."
I was just not sure if he had tried to do the other things I suggested in my post to him. Also, we cannot "blame" our spouses for being HD or LD as though it is something they choose for themselves. If our hormones is out of kelter....that is a good place to start. If the romance is lacking....that is another place to help heat things up a bit. But, no, I certainly did not mean to say that one spouse should "conditionally" and the other "unconditionally"......(but I am still not sure what you mean by that.)
I have known some personal cases where men/husbands (mine included) "blamed" the woman for being frigid when come to find out, there is no such thing as a frigid woman. So, I feel that I need to come to the defense of the female when she is blamed for being cold and the man's needs is not being met. If he is trying to learn how to physically please her body, and he is trying to do other things to emotionally prepare her for ML, and there is still no positive results....then the next step is C.....either for her or MC for both of them. But, for either side to point their finger at the other and say they are either too LD or too HD is not fair.
To you,starvinmarvin,......my H told me the same thing, that you told your W, for more than 20 years. I did all the cute little things to spice up the sex life (he certainly didn't). The more he complained about not enough sex, the more "lacking" I felt. I could never do enough. I thought I was adnormal for many, many years until I went to C and found out differently. Also, my H wanted me to be the one to seduce him, but God made woman the way He did on purpose. I can't understand why some H's want to change that all around once they marry the girl. Females are created to "respond" to the male's sexual advances. Now, if she doesn't or "can't" then most of the time, it is something the male is not doing right. Sorry that hurts the male ego out there, but that is what the professionals say. They also say the most important female sex organ is the brain....so that is why I suggested start working on the head and making your way downward.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Hey, guys, I'm back. This was the first post I looked at.
SM: I did the same thing. Over the years, I could do w/o sex. I never put 2 & 2 together, for me, sex was one more thing I felt I HAD to do along w/ the kids (3 little boys), the house, working full-time, etc. It didn't click for me until after H dropped the D bomb about sex & intimacy. I don't think women necessarily TRULY understand that men don't just think sex is sex. I never realized that my H felt REJECTED when I didn't want to have sex.
Anyway, my advice is that, if you truly love/loved your W, give it a chance. Give her a chance to see what's been missing all these years and understand FINALLY where you are coming from.
Getting a D and moving on isn't always the answer. You don't necessarily know what you may end up w/ "next time."
If your W is anything like me, she was never trying to hurt you the way you were probably hurting all these years. She just didn't "get it" until she "had to."
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
Hey Marvin for some reason when I read your first post I thought of the quote attributed to Oscar WIlde it goes something like.
"There are only two tragedies in life: one is not getting what one wants, and the other is getting it"
I think what you're experiencing is fairly common reactions on both sides of the relationship. Maybe it took getting to the point of separation has let your wife "get it" that's fairly common you can question her motivations and even doubt what you originally wanted is still what you want. You're going to have to try to deal with your resentment if you want to help fix the situation.
One thing that you should pay close attention to is how the dynamic in the relationship changes now that you "don't want it" see how her trying to "get you" will push you away in many ways. It's may almost be a 180 of the relationship power struggle that was. See if you can bring any compassion to the situation and try not to abuse the power that you find yourself wielding right now.
I have a feeling and tell me if I'm wrong that if you truly wanted to go or were 100% sure about leaving that you would not be posting on a message board called "divorce busting". All the best to you and I hope things turn out for the best for both of you.
Sandi, That is only part of it. If you look deeper into it, the woman starts the "dance" by doing things to signal availability and be attractive in order to incite the male into the chase. Also, repeated rejections go a long way in discouraging the HDM into initiating, especially if she isn't signaling availability in the first place. Both have to play for it to work right.
Yes, I agree. But, we females do the "dance" when we "want" to have sex. I am saying that when a woman has a low sexual drive...she's not going to start the dance! The man has to help her by talking her love language or do something she likes to help her low drive get heated up. It does take both partners to make it work in any relationship, but remember we are talking about a HD man vs LD female. As I have told others, there is more than one reason a woman can have LD......and since I'm not a worldly experienced woman, I can't speak from experince myself other than to say that if the H doesn't do anything to "help" her either in the physical love making technique itself....or talking her "love language" she needs to get into the mood.....I just don't see how he thinks she is going to start chasing him around the dinning room table and throw him down on the floor and jump on top of him. If she has always been this way (or as some have said, "born this way")then it is not very realistic of him to expect her to change from not craving it 24/7 (like he does) when nothing has happen to change her.
My main purpose for bringing it up to starvingmarvin was that he constantly talked about it to his W and it was damaging their M. That has been the biggest problem within my own MR and the more he talked about it....the farther away from him I wanted to be. It is kind of like the DR Tech. Men need to be taught what not to do and say that makes matters worse when the W is LD. The same is true when it is turned around and the W is HD and the H is LD. We all probably do just the opposite of what we should do! Anyway, after so many decades of complaining about the lack of sex....it finally stopped altogether. I didn't want that to happen and did not choose for it to happen, but he chose to stop sleeping in the bedroom with me. Now, to this day he probably thinks I should be the one to come to him and do the "dance"......but guess what? It hasn't happened. Have I had the desire to do the dance? Not once. (BTW, if this is coming across as sounding hateful, I don't mean for it to....)
Do you know what my H said to me when he discovered my IM from the OM? He thought to himself, "Well, she is human after all!" Now that hurt me. Did he think I was inhuman or that I never had needs or that I couldn't feel? You may be thinking that I run him out of the bedroom, but I didn't.....he just stopped having sex with me and never gave me a reason. He did tell my mother (of all people) that if we ever had sex again that I would have to be the one to go to him and do the "dance". It has been eleven years and he has not held me or kissed me.....and I have not done the dance. But, I would have for the OM.......b/c he was talking my love language.....the OM was filling my love tank...or whatever you want to call it, he was giving me what I needed to feel desirable and I wanted to have sex with him. I didn't, but I wanted to.
I have not told you all this to make any of you mad or to hate me. That is not my intention. I mearly wanted to tell one person please don't make the same mistake that my H made. You don't come out the winner! Don't point fingers and say, "You are to blame!". "If you really loved me you would........" (fill in the blanks) If you are the HD partner and you know you have a LD partner, for God's sake......go in there and do the dance if you have to be the one to do it every time......just as long as somebody does it....or else end up like me and my H. You don't want that. It is too lonely. We have gone so many years now without sex until I don't know if we will ever be intimate again. That is very sad to me.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
The OP issue isn't that his wife is LD, his issue is that after many years of trying what he thought was best to get at the time to have the kind of relationship he wanted things changed. He has given up any dance and now she want appears to want to dance he's not sure he can be bothered right now.
What is in the past ,is in the past. The present situation seems a bit different.
Sandi2 Yes, I agree. But, we females do the "dance" when we "want" to have sex. OH? I saw the dance many, many years ago. In the last 10 years I saw something that wasn't "the dance" when I said I was through. I think this is what Marvin is talking about.
Anyway, after so many decades of complaining about the lack of sex....it finally stopped altogether. Yes, I have been thinking about that too.
Why??? W said it is too hot for sex in the summer time, lets not do it in the summer time. Then there are fall alergies, colds in the winter time. Too late, have to work/appointment tomorrow and other reasons my W finds to not do it.
Me, I give her back and foot rubs several times during the week. I guess that doesn't get her reved up enough.
If you are the HD partner and you know you have a LD partner, for God's sake......go in there and do the dance if you have to be the one to do it every time......just as long as somebody does it....or else end up like me and my H. Yes, Sandi2, that is what I am doing. It is emotionally difficult. How do I keep it up?
BTW, sometimes we do have an emotional connection and sex is OK, but it is more often me doing the dance with a partner that gave up her desire in 1981 and is doing it passively for me.
You don't want that. It is too lonely. I agree.
We have gone so many years now without sex until I don't know if we will ever be intimate again. That is very sad to me. I haven't gone that long w/o sex so am not in as bad of a position as your's. (((((Sandi2))))) I extend a warm friendly hand to you. I guess I better read your old posts to learn of your story.
Sandi2, some guys do and do the dance but it doesn't do anything for the W, till he has a foot out the door. CDSM34 was one of those women.
Men want alternatives to walking in order to wake up the W. Men want alternatives to W's willing to have sex, but only if the W wants some gift ot some other thing.
