I have (had) many comments to make, but between being in Peru for almost a month, then the mojave desert, then the Tehacipi mountains, and no passing go in between, They always come long after everyone moved on to new subjects. Its cool seing the development syncronicity though.
That and being as your mostly bunny right now, regardless of what suit you have on, and Im mostly wolf, despite what women want to believe, Ill just inadvertantly eat you..( when I try to put the bunny back in its cage, I just make the bunny cry. and bleed. ALOT. )youll take my observations to be criticisms, and so I wont even touch your 20/30 hindsight comments about your M, that and this is not a dating board and very little in my life can be easily related to marriage, so Its better to be quiet then let my fingers talk without my permission.
for example bf -our friend Mojo, used to talk about caring about just the sex, but recently seems to have changed her mind. Im very happy for her.
mojo-Well, I think that's kind of an unfair characterization of me but I know you are just trying to help LQ. It's not like I joined this BB saying that all I wanted was "just sex" and now I've flip-flopped. When I joined this BB I was miserable because I felt like my 2bx's lack of sexual desire meant that he didn't love me
I was talking about your change from when your seperation first started up to now. not the whole trip. It was not a dig or a characterization of you as a whole person. It is normal, it is a true statement, and I am happy for your current state.
I slipped back a bit into the MegaMojo mindset out in the dating world but that is just a self-protective reaction due to my lack of empathy for the male tendency towards "f*ck and flee." I thought you wanted a wolf? If you were or wanted one F and F wouldnt bother you. I think you want a cuddly bear.
I havent F and F since I was a 21. Im not afraid of them misinterprating my intentions, and as long as I am honest, Im not responsible for their choices. However they do it to me quite often. Its pretty comical. There was this delicious Jewish Princess lawyer, (she thought she was a tigress, but she was really kitten *mew* ) who upon waking and walking into my office where I was catching up the next morning, looked around and stated accusingly... 'Your not a bartender.' Im not? *headscratch* I could swear I pour alcohol behind a bar regularly....*lightbulb* No not at the moment, I guess, so youll have to refill your own coffee. never saw someone dash out so fast... interesting. too bad, delicious. or the ones who want to snuggle, I let em, but dont cuddle back, and then they try to slip out without waking me. (I let em.)
My relationship with NG is doomed for obvious reasons you keep saying this, but to me its not obvious why...
In my opinion, the two hardest things to empathize with are the masculine desire to recharge in the cave or go to the cave when wounded and the masculine desire to "f*ck and flee."
What is so hard to comprehend about wanting to be left alone? I even say it. Let me Be. Its not code for, get me out of my mood. Its not code for, I dont like you, go away. It means Let me Be. You take care of you, like you did when you were single, Im taking care of me right now.
You certainly dont want to prop him up... The NEED, for recharging in the cave directly conflicts with her NEED to feel/know her emotional relevance. Crashing insecurities. She wants her bunny petted and he just wants peace and time to think. speaking for myself at least.
Have you been subjected to F and F? You havent related it here. You mentioned I need to gain empathy for the poor monkey girls. I have. I dont do monkey anymore. Its all wolf. The 6 of the last 11 consorts have been lesbians or lesbian lookalikes. baggy jeans, wife beater, weird hair, mens wallets, baseball hats. They dont look immediately feminine but its amazing what they are/trying to hide. It consists of me going to the grocery store, drug store, etc and exchanging looks.Im not sure whats going on with that yet, maybe its the dichotomy of my longish hair and craggy face. Im more Ichabod Crane, less Clark Gable. Im too strait laced to be smuggling guns thru naval blockades... guns scare me...they kill people... Maybe I have a feminine vibe. or because my persona is so hard? shrug. the other 5 were pros. bartenders/cosmo girls, just random meeting on the way to the car or in a parking lot.
BTW, Laurence Fishburne...Samuel L Jackson... they all look the same too me... Yep I said that... used to say that to x about her and her cousins... *grumpy face* LOL.
the female "just sex" drive is mostly masochistic in nature so why do you keep claiming to look for just a wolf. First, I sometimes act more monkey than I really am just because I can't or won't allow the bunny to be vulnerable. A wolf doesnt want a monkey. They cling to your scruff and chatter, as you try to roam your range, hunting. If you want a wolf, you need to be a wolf, a tigress, or a shark. I dont think NG is a wolf. But you know this. what in the heck I'm going to do in my dating life now that I've given up on finding a wolf. Why do you want just a wolf? I dont think you want a wolf, or you could have the 23 y.o, or AFF. I should gain more empathy for the male desire to see some other animals in play during sex or within a relationship because it is tied to a clear vulnerability to want to be wanted for more than the "wolf." I dont know what to say. I want what I want and I want it now, will definitely conflict with the ability to do the above. Are you saying women dont want to have to deal with the other aspects of a man? That would be helpful to know.
I dont have a problem with it now, probably why I act monkey here, and with my nephews, the three stooges. I did pretty good not needing it or allowing it to happen for the first 7 years, I could probably control it indefinitely now.
This simple gesture caused me to psychologically release the last of my sexual scarcity issues. Thats awesome. Im jealous. Everything in my life reinforces my R leap frog issue. If thats the reality, there is no better then my cheating x, so I should have sucked it up and done what works again. Ill never trust anyone again, (feel in love) I may as well not trust what I was allready addicted too.
There is something about wanting to trust the mother of my children I probably will have to get over also in addition to the love is a choice desire.... A POP stating her role as fetal support system only would probably help with that. Ive been researching surrogate mother laws. If I could understand that a woman just wants to have kids, as opposed to my desire to have kids only occurs with a certain woman.....sap, I should just be knocking everyone up, as is my purpose. oh yeah.... Remember that women are turned on by excitement too so keep a little wolf mixed in with your Alpha dog. It's a dance not a march. Personally I see marriage as a march. If your lucky you get to dance every now and then. Nobody ever needed to say vows to feel like dancin, dancin, dancin... shes a dancin machine...
My current gripe is that even men who totally understand that you have to "spank the monkey" find it hard to empathize with this aspect of the female drive.
?? NG gets a 4.5... why the gripe? I have no problem empathizing with it, I love spanking the monkey (Ill choose hers over mine every time..)but when it comes down to the wire, it would be nice to have a woman who made a choice. not a monkey, or a lioness, or a bunny or a mare. D is so wasteful. All that waste just ....blech... If she wants an animal when it comes down to the wire, well, that just entitles me to be an animal whenever I want too. Doesnt it?
I have a useful question. Since your nearly divorced now and have joined me in having all the answers with your 20/30 hindsight
(we should write a book)
-How do you recommend a woman break her fusion while maintaining her M?
The NEED, for recharging in the cave directly conflicts with her NEED to feel/know her emotional relevance.
Hm. I don't see that statement being gender related. I'd say you've got the whole LD/HD thing summed up pretty nicely there... feeds all kinds of things... pursuer/avoider... well... you all can think of the others...
No one ever seems to bother finding out INTENT for either one of those actions. They assume they know the intent, or, if the intent is spoken, the other person doesn't believe it.
I see that cycle as being NECESSARY for the sustainability of a LTR... in any LTR, whether it is a marriage or a friendship, or even with family. To NOT do that cycle... is to have superhuman powers, which none of us have... 'least, last time I checked.
But if you can't recognize the need for what it is... and state it... and if you can't accept it from your partner when it comes... and not personalize it... hmmm. KA-BHAMMM!!!!
No matter what animal or zoo keeper or zoo patron is in proximity... they will probably get killed/maimed/injured...
Thats awesome. Im jealous. Everything in my life reinforces my R leap frog issue.
Perhaps that is because you expect to see nothing else, and therefore, life will always hand you what you want.
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If thats the reality, there is no better then my cheating x, so I should have sucked it up and done what works again.
Hm. Perhaps rephrase? Instead of "If that's THE reality..." swap out with... "If that is MY reality..."
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Ill never trust anyone again, (feel in love) I may as well not trust what I was allready addicted too.
Maybe you weren't addicted to love. Maybe you weren't addicted to trust. Those two things you do or don't do.
Maybe you just got addicted to not being disciplined... being disciplined is a LOT of work. It's nice not having to work so hard... all the time... always being vigilent. Can make a person lazy... maybe allow them to nod off a time or two... and then when the wolf gets into the hen house, and eats all the chickens... it's kind of easy to nail your co-workers for not keeping the fences secure...
and that could in fact be part of it. But I don't think that has anything to do with love or trust. IMHO. You can't fix what you can't own. And I'm not so sure that being 'in love' and trusting... were THE culprits. They were present at the time... but... I don't think because you loved and trusted... lead to the demise...
BF Lou, after being here for a few years, do you think most men are selfish? I don't see most men represented on the SSM forum as selfish. IRL, I see very few guys that I would consider selfish. H that have different goals and values than the W has, yes. Quite a few of those R’s. BB sees some differences as each individual should do as s/he pleases or the R is in deal breaker mode.
MoJo's H was self-centered/depressed at times. Corrri’s H?????
I see mismatches in expectations between H's and W's. I see men missing clues, not being able to read women-speak. I see men buying into the equal leadership model. I see men giving W's most of the things she wants but in a different form than she wants or not at the right time. I see FOO messing with decisions and expectations. That has been my personal experience.
On another forum, where most of the posters are LBW's, I hear of examples of selfish men. I hear W's say they did everything. She had the perfect M. She was the perfect W. A few of those statements might be true.
After a while the LBW's admit to chinks in the M. Some even say they (W) contributed to the demise of the M and that it took the H's leaving to see the good things she had in the past.
BF, selfish goes two ways. BB's idea that men are selfish comes from her FOO, and from BB working in a Co-Dependency program the hospital had when she was the med nurse. People see what they want to see, saw in the past and formed a global opinion, and what they can relate to. . (BTW I really liked BB’s stepfather. He did have different rules than her mother)
Sometimes I think, BB would do fine married to someone with double my income, double my spending level, if he were easy-going. Some guys with double my income, double my spending wouldn't be OK with some of the things BB likes to do, wants, or doesn't like to do.
On another forum, where most of the posters are LBW's, I hear of examples of selfish men. I hear W's say they did everything. She had the perfect M. She was the perfect W. A few of those statements might be true.
That statement can never be true. Those attitudes only perpetuate the negative dance and are why I think those boards are dangerous.
Sometimes I think, BB would do fine married to someone with double my income, double my spending level, if he were easy-going. Some guys with double my income, double my spending wouldn't be OK with some of the things BB likes to do, wants, or doesn't like to do.
Maybe, but I doubt it. All she will do is raise her sights to someone better off than her and complain why she doesn’t have as much as that person. Maybe you should take her on a trip to a really depressed area of the world, some third world country with REAL poverty. That is a real eye opener.
Just to clarify, there wasn't and isn't a dam thing wrong with my xH.
What we created for ourselves, together, wasn't right for either one of us... and we could not find our way out of that. There are all kinds of things I can list regarding what I did/didn't do that added to us not 'finding our way out of that.' When I am feeling b!tchy and self-serving, I can come up with quite a list, for HIM, that added to us not 'finding our way.' <-- I don't get to author that list, tho.
When all that roiled together and let loose it's ugliness upon us both... I hit my boundary. I got out.
Corri When I put ????? after your H's name, I had mismatched in mind. I know you are very precise and are in fine detail mode most of the time.
I didn't want to get it wrong so I put in ????? instead of a words or words. You said it better with your post There are all kinds of things I can list regarding what I did/didn't do that added to us not 'finding our way out of that.' When I am feeling b!tchy and self-serving, I can come up with quite a list, for HIM, that added to us not 'finding our way.'
Cobra Maybe you should take her on a trip to a really depressed area of the world, some third world country with REAL poverty. That is a real eye opener. That is "So True."
When I post on the mostly LBW forum, I know I am island of testosterone in a sea of estrogen, (fancy way of saying the women are mostly going to see things from their POV) but some guys represented there, (mostly 2nd hand information BTW) seem to be in “me mode.” They have OW, the bachelor apt, toys/cars/boats, and a different job, unlike most of the men on SSM. Many of the W's think all men cheat eventually.
Dangerous, maybe Cobra. Risky and trying, for sure some times.
It isn't only men being selfish. Some women show up in "selfish me mode."
It is a challenge to post there. Sometimes the clubs and insults are hurled at me. Sometimes after a while a few so called "perfect W" will see some things she did to contribute to the demise of the R.
One W wanted to bail on her M. It took a couple of months of listing what I do for my family and for BB for her to see what her H was doing for her and why her new boy toy wouldn't do those things. She said she wasn't going to leaver her H and thanked me for pointing out reasons to save her M and things she now saw as valuable, that she hadn't in the past.
I tried to do the same with another woman. I think she bailed. The boy-toy attraction was too strong. Her H sounded like a good man. Oh well, that happens.
There are men on the forum admitting faults and mistakes. Some women verbally beat those guys at first, then soften and ask why the man thinks or acts a certain way.
In the end, most men and women gain understanding of each others situation a little bit better. I see some slow growth in some of the posters. I transfer ideas posted on the SSM and have helped a few guys improve their EQ or something similar.
Maybe patting the bunny and feeding the cow was over done. When I tried to do something different, I got complaints. Now I hear, ignore the complaints (I think any way) now I have to spank the monkey.
I think our R is so far from monkey spanking, I wonder where to begin.
Okay, I'm kind of going to the end of the range of what I mean when I say "masochistic". How about if I suggest that it should be "fun"? I will use my swimming analogy. Let's say the man is being the leader in bed so he is like the swim coach. It's not so much fun if the swim coach makes you wear a life preserver, inflatable arm rings and hold on to a kickboard and then only takes you out into 2 feet of water. If you have a bad attitude about swimming that isn't going to improve matters. Just ask yourself "What would be a fun thing to do with a naked woman" and then just do it.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
)youll take my observations to be criticisms, and so I wont even touch your 20/30 hindsight comments about your M, that and this is not a dating board and very little in my life can be easily related to marriage, so Its better to be quiet then let my fingers talk without my permission. 
