Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums THE SEX-STARVED MARRIAGE Corri's Workshop II

I generally practice not talking about my work too much either. I will discuss it at times, mention neutral topics or the like, but I have always understood that men should leave the office at the office.

I'm curious what led you to this understanding.

Bringing it home opens up too much possibility to drag in all the negative crap that can occur.

What kind of negative crap?

Then after a while the wife can feel like she is only there as a punching bag or something. At some point the feeling of validation and being included starts to wear off for her and changes to feeling like she is an emotional dumping ground (she gets enough of this from the kids).

Has she actually told you that she feels this way or are you assuming based on her behavior?

I think a lot of men understand this dynamic and therefore try to keep the office at the office.

Why is this dynamic so negative, something to be avoided?

I also think that most women do NOT understand this.

You're probably right. I don't understand it. That's why I'm asking these questions.

My wife talks incessantly to anyone who will listen about all the crap at her school. I will listen for a while, but honestly it’s like a bottomless pit and a one way conversation. She does not want to hear my opinions or advice, so there is little more I can do but listen to something that is boring to me and frustrating too.

I think I talked incessantly about all the crap at my WOH job. It was a one-way conversation much of the time. All I wanted was for someone to listen to me. I didn't want opinions or advice either, usually. I just wanted someone (cac) to listen to me. I think this is common for many women, and something that, at the risk of making a generalization, many men don't understand. Why is it boring and frustrating to listen to your wife?

I'm sorry, I kind of have to agree. My wife has the 2 kids to deal with as well but she still WANTED to hear about my day, negative or positive. She wanted to be there to listen and be supportive or critical but I didn't let her. I chose to not talk of work and in a way it has hampered our relationship. It took away one of her tools for being able to be supportive of me

Gary
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"If you can't lick em, lick em" - Ted Nugent
"D'ooh !!" - Home Simpson

Corri,

My wife, and a lot of women in general I think, want to feel involved in their husband’s lives, including the job. They want to feel they are a part of the team and therefore can share in any accomplishments, promotions, etc. I have no problem with that. But as a manager most of my career, I have to deal with people, mostly women. There have been plenty of times when I have had to put up with nothing more than hissy fits, cat fights, office politics and the like. Work is not all rosy and fun. Sometimes it can be a major PITA. Guess what happens when those times come around? She doesn’t want to hear about it, or maybe I don’t want to talk about it, or she disagrees with how I handle thing, whatever.

Then if there are other problems at work, especially like job security, talking about that will only stress the wife, she will want to know what you are doing to fix things or find a new job, talk to the boss, and basically tell you how you should run your job, or basically, invalidating how the H is doing things. That’s an open invitation for all kinds of arguments. Leave it all at the office. Find connection through other avenues.

The “traditional” model is that the man comes home from a long day at a frustrating job with a demeaning boss, stuffs his feelings, kicks the dog and fights with the W. I have ALWAYS heard that it is best to leave the office at the office. In fact among men, when getting together for social activities, even golf, it is taboo to start talking about work..


MrsCAC,

What you describe, and what many women want, especially SAHMs, is completely different. Caring for the kids all day leaves a void of adult interaction. So your need is to connect with your H, but the subject is often the kids, a topic the H does (or should) have an interest in also. I think SAHMs are a different situation.

My wife is now working. She does occasionally talk to me about what is going on with her students, or the other teachers and assistants, the office politics, etc. But when I start to ask questions and interact, she does not want to listen. She really wants this to be a one-way street. So she talks to her friends, sisters or other teachers about this, which is fine with me. She is not discussing work issues to bond in an interacting way, but to sooth herself.

I notice this in other situations, sometimes even on this board. Women will discuss something about their sitch, another will comment about hers, and for a while each will be talking independently about themselves, taking turns to say their piece, but none of them really paying any attention to what the other is saying, just taking turns saying it in public. That seems to be enough to make them feel good. That doesn’t do it for me. So I think Dr. Laura’s advice regarding this is good – women need other women friends to fill this particular role.

Why is it boring and frustrating to listen to your wife?

Have you tried talking to CAC about the latest football game or sport event, or about the latest car or airplane model? Why not? Does it bore you? Well, a lot of the subjects women like bore us men. The trick is to find something that is mutually interesting to the both of you.

Corri I understand that the book is important to you.

"When someone validates us, we receive what we all yearn for:
Acceptance, understanding, and a sense of connection"

What I get from what the little that I have read is that the acceptance, understanding and connection is with the "other". In that way it seems to me like that is the same as the what the cycle inside a fused relationship.

My view is that the acceptance,understanding and connection has to be with the self first.

Right now the quote just seems like the bumper sticker on the codependent wagon to me. I will read the whole booklet and I will not comment more until I have a clearer idea.

Martelo,

What I get from what the little that I have read is that the acceptance, understanding and connection is with the "other". In that way it seems to me like that is the same as the what the cycle inside a fused relationship.

I think you're right. But what exactly is wrong with that "other connection" if it makes us feel so good? IMO Nothing.

The problem is when one person decides to cut off the other-validation, which is why the idea of differentiation or self-validation is so important. You can't TRUST someone else to always be there for you. Sh*t happens. Other than that, what is so wrong with other-validation? (I am assuming that the person is not dependent on other-validation for his/her self esteem, to get an ego "fix" or something like that, ie, is not codependent.)

Cobra:



I'm not saying you have to change your actions to suit your wife and her possible needs. But you don't have to INVALIDATE her along the way. So, if she asks you about your day/your job, you can say, "I'm sorry, I don't really want to talk about it." If continues to press, you tell her you appreciate her concern, but that you really don't want to talk about it. If she asks, "is there something wrong?" You can say no, I just don't want to talk about it."

You answer her questions directly and at the same time, respect the fact that you don't want to talk about it. Period.

Or... don't do all that. So... it really isn't about your opinions on this, which I respect and understand... it's more about how to respect her and yours at the same time. There is no questioning your values/beliefs, etc. Just the methods.

And I am completely cool with it if you don't agree.

Corri

Well... a great deal of the impetus of the book is learning how to deal with your own emotions. The validation/invalidation section are examples of how we can validate/invalidate others.

If you want to change that, great, here's a way (and his reasons supporting why he thinks it) that you can do it.



So... your wife is completely self-validating right now?



I can see how you'd see that.

Corri

M:

To clarify a bit further... I see this book from self... "if what the author is describing is how I feel about myself and within my M, here are things I CAN DO for me to improve my view, my self-worth, my situation. Where I once thought I was a slave to my partner, my boss, a person, a place, a thing, I now see I have more control over all that than I once thought.

The validation/invalidation section, I think, shows the reader how what they are saying/doing may in fact be coming across as invalidating to their partner... even if the reader didn't intend it that way. Which could explain their partner's seemingly inexplainable reactions (withdrawing, getting upset, etc)

"Ooohhh... so now, as the reader, if I apply this to ME, I may actually start feeling better about myself, about my relationships... and I may very well get different results." Not.. "oh, I'll give this to my spouse so they will see what a schmuck they are being to me..."

To me... that is what you've said you actually experienced in your own life. You changed YOUR sense of self-worth through self-validation... and one might ask... how'd you do that?

And one way a person could do that is by doing the things suggested in this book.

So... I don't need my regard of the book (which I haven't really talked about at all, actually) to transfer to other people.

Many people in SSM's, low desire and high desire alike, talk about how 'powerless' they feel, and like it's a stay in it and be miserable, or rip my M apart...

I believe that isn't the case for MOST people.

I'm discussing ONE POSSIBLE METHOD I thought GGB might find useful for the work HE is doing on HIMSELF. And knowing that others are also doing this same self-work (and Cobra asked me directly how I got where I am)... I put a link to an example of what I did... when I was doing, though, I didn't have this link. It might have helped a great deal.

If Cobra applies this to HIMSELF, and he sees even more changes in his M, great. If he says he's already done all this and that still doesn't help... I understand that, too. Only he can decide what methods he'll use. WHAT I think of those methods doesn't really matter. He asked me a question, and my answer was... here is a method you might try.

You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink.

If a person decides they are truly powerless, then they are.

Corri

Corri,

I'm not saying you have to change your actions to suit your wife and her possible needs. But you don't have to INVALIDATE her along the way.

I was getting onto a tangent more in response to MrsCAC's question about why wouldn't I want to talk to my wife. In real life, the few times my wife has asked about my job or what I do, I get to talk for about 2 minutes before she cuts me off saying that it is too boring and is putting her to sleep, which is fine with me. So in general she doesn't ask and I don't bring it up. (Last year was an exception, when my boss died in a car wreck and we got a new CFO. She wanted to hear about that).

Corri I'm up the end of chapter seven so I feel I can comment a bit on that bit of the booklet. The author does cover allot of the ground about dealing with the self that I was questioning with the book. I do have some issues with the "research has shown" parts of the book and some of the particular model of emotions that is presented at the front of the but the rest of the book is much more flushed out than the validation chapter.

I'm interested in seeing where the author takes it from here, although I found the end to chapter seven about his feelings of suicide a bit bizarre at first. But I appreciate the honesty many authors talking about the value of being happy would gladly eliminate the fact that they have gotten that low because it would make their "program" seem flawed. So I'm interested it reading more of it.

So on to your question.

" So... your wife is completely self-validating right now? "

I could try and weasel out of it by replying "interesting question why do you ask?"

Or directly question the validity of the question, do you really care or are you just trying to prove a point with rhetorical devices?

Maybe I could defensively throw up a bunch of stuff that has nothing to do with the question and instead get all "meta" about the answer.

I could say I never claimed anyone should be completely self-validating or even strive to be.

I may even claim that my wife's inner life isn't mine to disclose publicly.

I could ask how to measure the level of self-validation in someone else.

But I think I'll stick to what I believe is true.

No she isn't.
Neither am I.