Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums THE SEX-STARVED MARRIAGE Chrome is back

LFL

There is no sense defending yourself when you are wrong. I've been deluding myself about my confidence, level of attractiveness, and R intelligence, and as Corri pointed out, sometimes a 2x4 is what is needed.

I do see the truth in what you say though, and I think I am better about not excessively apologizing like I used to. As everyone though, it is easy to slip back into bad habits.

Is it funny or absurdly ironic that I actually for a moment thought about ending that last paragraph by saying sorry.

Chrome

Blackfoot,

I'm not looking for sympathy, and I know you're not in the business of giving it. I do appreciate the fact that you have tried to be my friend despite the fact that I am what you despise. I can see how I've been lying to myself about who I am and what I want, and that has hopefully not irreparably damaged my M.

I will go back and think about the questions you asked and try to come up with reasonable answers. Right now I am trying to find some equanimity before I go teach my class. I was able to resist being self-deprecating in front of my W before I left this morning, and I'm going to do my darndest to not act stupid in front of my students.

Taking a deep breath and walking around ... and making up a quiz and editing my lecture notes.

Ironically enough, I did ML last night. I was able to stay focused and in the moment, and was very open about what I wanted from my W, and was able to O without the fantasy. And I think she had a good time too.

One thought I have before I go, I don't now how to express my feelings very well without words. I know that words kill the emotion. Specifically I don't know how to show anger without thinking I'm coming across as pouty, or being afraid of my rage. Don't know if that makes sense.

Chrome

Late to the game but I'll still give my 2 cents:

Boundary: I will not live in a sexless/affectionless marriage.

I think boundaries are different than wants. I am not sure that living in a sexless/affectionless marriage is boundary more than a desire. And since your wife does have times of being affectionate and ML to you it's hard to say that you are in a sexless marriage at all. However you are definitely in a marriage where you are not receiving the affection and sex that you desire. At this point can you separate out what you PURELY (by purely I mean that you just want to ML to her or have sex with her) want from your wife versus what you want from her to MAKE you feel good about yourself? I don't think you know that yet and that might be what causes you from pushing forward. While you should continue that work to figure how to take care of yourself, don't let it interfere too much with desiring your wife. Even if you are looking for something from her.

She is on the computer

What is she doing on the computer? Does she talk about it?

Me: Hey pretty lady, come on over here with me on the couch and let's cuddle for awhile.
Her: I don't want to, we always fall asleep when we cuddle on the couch and then I can't go to sleep later.

I didn't see that exchange as supplicating but rather as playful and leading. The REST of the exchange became supplicating because you ignored her reply to you. Asking once isn't a problem to ME. It's the repetitive asking that appears supplicating. And it's seems like IF you can change her mind, then you'll feel good about yourself. I wouldn't put that much importance on getting her to change her mind.

Could you have replied to her first response "Then let's just go to bed now?" or "After I'm done with my lesson plans, I'm going to drag you to bed!" Or perhaps you could have walked over to her and kissed her neck and said "Maybe later." and walked off? Again take these suggestions with a grain of salt because I don't know much about the sex starved stuff. I feel like I do know about being more confident and less reliant on others to MAKE you feel something about yourself.

How are you feeling about yourself and your life goals? Have you been working on yourself? What personal interests do you want to work on more?

Good Luck

One thought I have before I go, I don't now how to express my feelings very well without words. I know that words kill the emotion. Specifically I don't know how to show anger without thinking I'm coming across as pouty, or being afraid of my rage. Don't know if that makes sense.

I've been thinking about this between your past comments about anger and the comments on EQ about feelings being feminine.

First, since anger is a feeling I have a hard time with the idea that men do not have feelings.

Second, I have not figured out whether I think anger is a direct feeling or an indirect one. I think it is probably both but I would guess that at least 50% of the time it is indirect. My XH used to get angry with me during arguments, at least it appeared that way. He later admitted in counseling that what he was feeling was shame because he felt that since I was upset that he had failed. Rather than being able to tell me that he felt badly that I was upset, he got angry and yelled. So anger was indirect. It also seems that anger comes from feeling sad, feeling frustrated, feeling scared, feeling embarrassed, feeling confused, etc.

Where do you think your dad's rage came from?

Growing up on a dairy farm, I sometimes saw my dad "snap" in the milkhouse when a cow kicked him HARD or wouldn't stop kicking the milkers off. It was kind of scary to watch him hit a cow. He NEVER hit us and never raged at us verbally but that intensity was there and usually he could go very silent the few times we ever angered him. I guess I am saying that I understand some of the rage dynamics and would just look for ways that would let it out but not at people. It was affective for my brothers and I to SEE the rage but thankfully never have to have it directed at us.

Maybe you could get a heavy bag and go out and take your frustrations or anger out on the bag. It would be a visual way to show your anger and would be "safe" for you.

That came out wrong, too late to edit. I don't mean to imply you are incapable of sympathy, or that you haven't given it out when you felt it. I was trying to say that my posts are not a plea for sympathy and I'm not trying to wheedle it out of you by being self-deprecating. While I do sometimes exhibit P/A behavior, it is not my normal modus operandi. That's all I was trying to say.

Chrome

Fearless,

Got class in 15 minutes, but talking is helping me not get into visible kick-myself mode. Anyway, this will be brief for now.



I started to comment about it, but its clear I have no idea what I'm talking about with boundaries.



True, I should amend that statement to say that I do not want to live in a M that has a too low level of intimacy/affection/sex. You are right that "too low" is my own definition and may be different than the norm.

I have been thinking a bit and I'm wondering if it is more based on a perceived lack of respect (whether or not she truly lacks respect for me I'm not sure as I have been coloring my feelings to suit my own purposes apparently). And the perceived lack of respect could also be transported over from IL interactions as well.



I don't know



Yes, she reads message boards. And no, normally she doesn't want to engage in conversations about it, although at times she has.



I think I get that.



Those sound reasonable to me. I guess I was just misguided in thinking I would appear weak if I stopped pursuing (I can see you nodding your head Cobra, I did have it wrong).

I will say that I have said things similar to that in the past, and gotten nowhere later, although there could have been other differences that led to my failure on those occasions.



Not as good as I thought. Thought I was making progress. I was able to get my Euphonium back from my brother, been wanting to brush up on my brass skills. Its just hard when practicing a musical instrument in the day leads to kids wallowing all over you, and can't play at night b/c it will wake them up. Have thought about doing it at school, its just finding time during the day.

Chrome

Fearless,

One more quick response. Printer is slow getting my quizzes printed out ...



Don't know if you caught this, but a LONG time ago I mentioned that my father had a PA, was caught by my mom, and the agreement they reached was for him to join the military so that he would be forced to be away from OW. His PA was in part due to low levels of intimacy with my mom due to them having 4 kids in 5 years. So I think his rage toward us was in part due to blaming us for his problems. Don't know for sure though.

More later.

Chrome

I will say that I have said things similar to that in the past, and gotten nowhere later, although there could have been other differences that led to my failure on those occasions.

The "problem" is that these suggestions won't elicit immediate responses from your wife. This is about an attitude change over a long period of time. This is not about tricks but long term changes.

It's like deciding to run a marathon. If you're running three miles a day, you have to gradually work up to more mileage. Could you imagine someone increasing their mileage to 4 miles a day and expecting to be able to run a marathon? Nope they have to continue gradually to build up their mileage. (And yes I have a hard time with gradual too!! In the past I would feel so good I would run extra on a light day and I would pay for it the next week. Fatigue is good about limiting how much you can run.)

Anyway, just keep doing the right things and they will begin to add up?

Yes, she reads message boards. And no, normally she doesn't want to engage in conversations about it, although at times she has.

Is there any activity the two of you can do together at home (outside of the obvious:))? Putting together a puzzle, learning a language, cooking together, having friends over to play card, etc.? Anything that could draw the two of you together?

Just a thought...

Chrome,

Want to see how to enforce a boundary? Go back and read BF’s comments to you. He set you straight on how he felt by your comparison, let you know in no uncertain terms he would not stand for it, and implied a consequence, one that you know he will likely keep. Remember that old saying, “He who cares the least controls the relationship.” Who is caring more to maintain the relationship with BF, you or he? I know BF cares about you, but not to the point of enduring whatever he considers insulting. So instead you bent over backward to apologize. LFL was right in her post to you, IMO.

There is no need to search for the right amount of seriousness or joking when you aren’t sure about yourself or your W. Rather just be honest. I think your joking is to avoid hurting her feelings and thus getting rejected yourself. Tell her whether you want sex or to just cuddle. If she is concerned about getting sleepy, find another way to engage her that will keep her awake.

Why can the computer keep her attention better than you? What is she looking at? Discuss what she is doing. If the evening ends up as you described, at least confront her on the fact that she said she needed her sleep but instead stayed up for 3 more hours. Rattle her cage about this and tell her to use better self discipline to keep her sleep. Once she gets behind in sleep, it will accumulate into the next day and affect your chances of having sex again, so I think you do have a vested interest in expressing your frustration her web browsing. It hurts the marriage. I also think it is an escape for her. Confront that issue too.

Fearless in the EQ thread I was stating that the particular concepts that the author was claiming are "all we long for" were feminine concepts. In that feminine is identified with communion and the masculine identified with agency. The feminine is about together while masculine is about apart, the two are in constant flux in all of creation everything is a part and a whole. Yin and Yang. Emotions are a human experience actually a maybe a conscious experience of all "intelligent" life.

Nowhere did I say that men don't have emotions or that emotions are solely for girls.