Divorcebusting.com Forums Divorcebusting.com Archives For Newcomers Archives WAW1978's adventures in DB'ing -3

WAW,

I'm sorry we are jacking your thread.

Flip,

Post up a thread, it would be a great tool for others and yourself. As for the manipulation point, well you have found the website so I'm wondering if you have read Divorce Remedy? You should and see what Michelle says about manipulation.

If all I saw was the BB's and my W was on her soliciting advice and then trying it out on me I think I'd be hurt as well, but remember this person is trying to save the R, and that is admirable. The whole process of DB'ing is about changes through actions (manipulation), you either carry a negative conotation with that word or you don't and most see it negatively.

Actions always produce reactions, thats how we got here to begin with, and it is how we get out of here as well, it's just which actions do you want to see, yelling and griping or smiles and laughs. Why is one set seeking a positive manipulation and the other set of actions isn't. Sorry, this is a rant for myself mostly.

Hey CVA

Some examples of what I consider controlling:

Me: What do you think about me going back to school for XYZ?
H: I don't think so.

Me: My girlfrieds are getting together for XYZ, could you watch DD so I can go?
H: This isn't enough notice. Why are they always calling at the last minute? You have priorities...(again, he has not plans just doesn't want me to go) seriously, i had to tell my friends 3 weeks minimum notice for me to participate. this would be 3 weeks filled with reminders and what not. to which he would usually responed that I never told him/asked him about...by the end of 3 weeks I could clearly point on that he had known about XYZ for a number of weeks. I kid you not...

just a couple of examples...I used to pose everything as a question first, more out courtesy for him as my spouse not because I wanted him telling me what to do *and* on the occasions when I told him "I am going out with the girls to the movies" I was met with a nasty attitude and comments like where did I get off telling him what i was doing.

So over the years I was conditioned to asking him about things instead of just telling him. Several times when I was met with opposition I clarified that I was asking out of politeness to give him a chance to tell me if he had other plans that night etc...in hindsight, i never should have allowed that. I should have just stated what I was doing, and unless there was some big conflict I should have just said too bad. Unfortunately these conversations always boiled down to him needing to have a say so in what I did, where I went and with whom

Perfect example, the company I work for has a softball league. Last year I reluctantly played for my dept (not very well I might add) H was very upset about it but I did it anyway. Every time I came home from the games I would be interogated about what transpired at the game, if I went for drinks after...why did the game run late (duh, we had a tie to break)

So this year, I really wanted to play softball he flat out said no way when it was mentioned. This was followed up by a no way to me taking classes towards my masters. Which was then followed up to no way taking a dance class with my cousin. See? This is just a little bit of the behavior.

The lesson I learned from all of this was a) there were very few things he ever wanted me to do b)even if I went ahead and did these things I would be punished with an attitude and nasty behaviour for days there after.

This is in conjuction to being jealous and not wanting me physically which in itself is a paradox. He was even jealous of me spending time with my family.

Also, his big complaint was that he never got to do anything...but he never made any plans for himself. I am not his mother and I refused to make "play dates". He also has become a shut in and has barely any friends to speak of because he never kept in touch with them. I our 5 years married I can count on 1 hand how many times he has ever gone out and done something on his own. Before we married he had tons of pals and did all sorts of things...but as soon as we married that was it. game over for him and somehow thats my fault? Anyway, I am getting frustrated and going off on a tangent.

But thats some of the behavior I considered controlling...Also telling me who I could and could not be freinds with was another issue.

No worries Atlas...hijack away. its a good dialogue.

waw1978,

The asking out of courtesy, I do that. It used to infuriate W and would make things worse. When I just started telling and not asking it got better sometimes but then it seemed it depended on the activity I was asking about.

It sucks because I truly believe out of courtesy to each other you should be asking, but when they are that controlling asking is just an open door for them to control the situation. I think it creates a situation where they have the control creating a powershift and that leads to an imbalance in equality. Then you know how you feel after that, sorry to hear. At least you recognize it and can show or tell him.

Wow, WAW, that is terribly controlling. I think we can all better understand why you're here. Your H, for whatever reasons, sounds like one of those men who believes that married life has to be dull and the end of independence for both partners. That stinks.

My W and I had a pretty good way of asking. Either of us, "I'd like to do/go X with Y/by myself on whatever date. Can you watch the girls/do you mind/do we already have something planned for that day?[would you like to come; if appropriate]" Worked out well.

BD

WAW1978,

Oh my gosh!!!! Are you sure we are not married to the same guy!!!!!!! My H had tons of friends and did lots before we got married, afterwards he cut off all contact with everyone and basically expected me to do the same. He tried to completely alienate me from everyone including my family. It's as if he thinks that he should be absolutely all I need to exist, and that before I met him I was absolutely nothing.

You talked about getting your masters degree. Does your H have a degree? Seems like mine is jealous or intimidated b/c I have one and he doesn't. I'm not any smarter than him, I just stuck it out and he didn't.

Flip

My H has his bachelors but has not interest in getting his masters. He also has tried to alienate me from family & friends. Succeeded in many cases too. I think this sort of thing is borderline abuse if not outright abuse.

Dual discussions going on here.

On the one about DB efforts and "manipulating things," I like these comments by CVA:





Good stuff.


On the discussion about controlling, that is some pretty shocking stuff WAW1978. Your H needs some serious help. Probably IC by himself for a while. He needs to have a major awakening. Sorry. (You knew that, I know.) This will test your patience to the max. (How's that for an understatement?)



Yes, thanks for sharing with us.

Nomo

Honey, stop talking about me!

JK, WAW, I hear you loud and clear. Some comments.

First, I exhibited some of this behavior and now realize how it is controlling and (i) not something I want to do (ii) did not know it was viewed this way and (iii) cant control the outcome of a night out or whatever anyway so why do it?

Second, I think most of this behavior is just downright selfishness. "Let me know blah, blah blah becuase it affects me, me, me and my needs that arent being met". What we dont realize at the time is those needs are about to "not" be met, permanently if we persist. So here we are....

What can I say, guilty. It sucks to admit it and I actually and honestly felt like I was being screwed by some of the thoughtlessness from her on the Friends going out thing, now I dont get screwed at all, literally. That sucks worse!

C

I don't think of myself as controlling at all (enabling? oh yes. paternal? oh yes. controlling of my spouse? I don't think so), bit it seems to me that that kind of behavior would likely be driven by insecurity. Does that sound right/make sense?