Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Infidelity/Extramarital Affairs/Jealousy Poisoning the Well

H - thank you for posting that. Yes, Bob, I cannot and apparently have not stressed enough that you are in an incredibly difficult situation and it is recognized that you are doing the very best you can...I know that...and I know that you are faring much better than I could/would in the same sitch. You are incredibly strong and are doing well. I'm sorry I didn't say it enough.

EM,

The being thru hell comment I think scares me more than anything. Heard that so many times. I think for to long I under played my sitch. That is part of why I started to post. I kept hearing how bad my life was. Ouch and wow. Perspective and objectivity does change everything. And then I heard more. A lot more. LOL.

1-I'd started counseling to learn to better serve her and to save the marriage. I learned alot, changed alot, grew alot. I started my posts after I/we filed for divorce. At the time I still hoped to R. I filed as these were the consquences laid out for her crossing certain boundaries, including, continued dishonesty and refusing MC/IC.

Rollercoaster mania at the time. Maybe the worst it had ever been in retrospect. As in Plan B, boundaries were crossed and consequences had to be dealt with and trying to protect whatever love I had left for her from leaving me altogether. A lot of posts were meant to be funny. Not sure that that always came thru.

I tried so hard to figure out what I was misunderstanding. Read a lot of books. That was how it started in my friends telling me to get in her head and change my approach. Own my own s**hit. Counselor and I tried so many approaches. In the end her comfort seemed to be it, but that comfort for her seemed to include her continued disregard, contempt, disdain, dishonesty, etc. towards me. Not owning her s**hit so to speak. Very confusing and hard to deal with. Kinda like her way or no way. Like above she refused MC/IC even when offered to use different counselors. Marriage didn't seem to a priority for her. Just her level of comfort. Understandable to a degree but as above, WTF(lack) ( ).

I think that at this time my understanding is leading to some deeper seated issue. Counselor believed she had no absolutes in her mind. He tried awfully hard to get something, anything out of her to work with. It was weird. She was really defiant and nasty and self-righteous and absolutely uncooperative. Kinda like talking to the Devil (?). It just wasn't right. Kinda sickening. Just, I don't know what to say. And that was my wife sitting there. Just, wow.

2-Started to document again. I'd destroyed my original notebooks in an act of reconcilliation. Ouch.

"IMO, I don't think she's able to share anything with you at this point in time - including the kids." I don't think I understand this.

3-Tell me more about the derogatory comments. I was trying to be funny sometimes. That confuses me as a couple friends have mentioned that they've not heard me slam her. And I'm like, "Are you sure?".

I do vent here and say things I'd not say in real life. And in ways I'd not normally do. Thank you for understanding. I do feel safe talking crazy here. I don't mean to scare or offend anyone. I just feel safe here venting and blowing of steam so that I don't do it in reality. I understand that freaks some people out. I hope they understand the pressure is going to released someway and this is probably the least damaging. I can only lift so many weights and exercise so much before it kills me. I hope they can see the humor I try to interject also.

The kids keep telling me I'm a great dad and that they feel safe with me. That I'm good to them. Don't lie etc. Honestly, that confuses me. Don't know why. Maybe cause they offer that? Then again maybe they have learned by seeing me appreciate others including them and their mom verbally. My wife has been treated like a princess through out this. Really. Honestly. I tried hard to set the example for my girls. How a lady is treated. And now that they know the truth, maybe they can see that dad loved and treated mom with dignity and respect even as mom was doing what she was doing. Maybe. Maybe not. Hopefully it shows them how to expect to be treated in a positive way.

Whew... You post is getting me going !!! Woo Hoo...

4-Thank-you. I have had a lot of guidance. It took a long time and a hard look at possible consequences of telling them, before I told them anything. When DD12 said, "Don't ever not tell us again", I knew I did the right thing. Now I'm tearing again, Jeepers... She looked so f**cking vulnerable and betrayed. I'm so sorry. Every-time I think of that moment it KILLS me. They didn't deserve this. If WW wants to raise hell with me, FINE. But she did this to them too. This so sux. They don't deserve this.

Anyways... Crying break over.

5-Unfortunate, but true. I think my kids deserve a better mom than this. I would really hope that if I ever send to her the comments about her raising her brother, one of two things would happen. She gets it together, or follows her own advice.

6-I think it only matters now because of the kids exposure to her and her world. Unfortunate, but true. Hence the kids deserve better. It's not for me to judge but I am called on to protect. And I honestly feel that their mom's world will and can damage them. I see what mom's chaos does to someone. I see her and her siblings and how they've ended up and I'm very concerned for my kids. I can build a better life for them. And I can guide them. But they will still be exposed to that other world. As a thought would you like your kids hanging out with my wife and her family, especially if you weren't there? No disrespect intended.

p.s. nothing offends me now, especially here. I know that you all have my and my family's best interests in mind. And that is very comforting and reassuring. I trust you guys. And you've earned it.

p.s.s. if she had her epiphany, between you guys and me, shhhhh.... of course I could R. Not to get all churchy on you. But Theo is on the money. As I can be forgiven, I can forgive.
BoB

Hi Bob - just a few thoughts:


Don't let that scare you! That needs to be celebrated. You have been through what appears to be the worst of this situation. You are in a better place. Your kids are in a better place. That is victorious!


This comes thru. You are a funny man. I find myself chuckling while reading.



This is the good part! This tells everything you went through. And I think it speaks volumes to your character.



I honestly think that she isn't mentally/psychologically/spiritually/physically (pick one) capable to meet you on common ground on any issue. From what I've read about her, including what I've quoted above, her comfort is all she cares about. That's not reality. That's not adulthood. I don't have children. But I teach and I see first hand in my classroom on a daily basis the difference in the child that is neglected and not parented and the child that is. In order to raise children, especially the way YOU want them raised (healthy) the two of you have to be adults. You are capable of and are an adult. Your wife seems to be in a fog, or she is really ill. At this point it doesn't really matter which one because the behavior itself is damaging to your children. IMO, if you have 50/50 custody you are going to be battling over the kids and they are unwittingly going to get caught in a tug of war. It won't be intentional, but it seems like the potential is there for it to happen repeatedly. She wants what she wants, how she wants, when she wants it and that attitude draws the battle line.



The comments weren't about your wife as much as they were about your marriage. Here is an example that I found really quickly. I know there are a few more, but didn't look long:



I know that this was said in frustration, etc. My only point about comments like these is that if they live in your head for a long period of time, you could impart these feelings to your children about their mom. I wasn't trying to be judgemental, I was just trying to get you to evaluate what your children are hearing when they hear the tone in your voice, see your actions, etc. I do think you are getting that anger out here, and that is good. That's what it's for.


Absolutely! I so agree! And I think you are doing your best to protect them. That HAS to be your mantra!



You ARE building a better life for them. They know it. They will follow your example in loving your wife. If Dad says ok, it will be ok. If Dad says this sux, so will they.

You are a very dedicated person. I think that's wonderful. Keep doing what you are doing.

(and we all know, no matter what, we'd all take or spouses back - that goes without saying)

EM,
Wow. Kewl.
More derogratory stuff. I'm concerned *not* to be derogratory. I've tried to convey how I feel about stuff, as opposed to personal attacks. I aprreciate any help with this.

Your a teacher, eh? Tell me more. I'm also a teacher and am always looking to learn more about teaching. I teach in a music production/video and motion graphics tech school. Mostly late teens/early 20's but a few adults also.

Thanks again.
BoB

Hey Bob -
hmmm...derogatory remarks...that's tough. Obviously I don't know your thoughts, I only KNOW what you post here. I also know that this is a huge outlet for venting angry thoughts/ideas, etc. So I do take what is posted here with a grain of a salt considering the emotional state of all. Let me put my concern this way: when my parents are upset with each other, I know they are upset with each other and they don't have to say anything to let me know. And I do, whether it's right or wrong, form opinions about who to side with. All of that happens without any verbal communication from my folks to me about their issues. Generally speaking if anyone is thinking the thought it will get communicated in some manner. So if your thought is "she's dead to me" this may get communicated to your children without you even knowing that you are commuicating it. I'm inclined to think that you say this out of anger in the moment and that when push comes to shove you really would do anything in the world to put your m back together again. If you aren't saying anything negative about your W outside of this site, and if you aren't truly thinking these negative things constantly, this probably isn't a huge issue. I just thought I would mention it in case it was.

Yes, a teacher. I was in the business world for 10 years, working as a corporate trainer and just switched over to teaching last year. I teach HS students literature, grammar, film literacy and the art of public speaking...it's quite fun and I regret not making the switch sooner, but at the same time don't regret my time in the business world.

Hope you're having a great weekend!
Em

EM,
You still around tonight?
I'm reading about NPD. My head is spinning. I know you said you thought it was a bit of a moot point if she is or isn't NPD. But I'm seeing to much of that in her. It's really freaking me out... I wouldn't mind talking abit about it.

Kids and how I feel:
Things are so good here. They aren't pinening after their mom as I thought they would. My little one is getting closer with me each day. They seem mostly content to stay here not at their mom's. They talk about their mom abit. But it feels different.
DD12 was upset that the topic of mom came up. The topic was mom relaying information thru the kids. DD8 was cool with it and wanted to pursue the talk but DD12 didn't want to talk "bad" of her mom. I dropped any further discussion.
Like I said before this dance is hard. I've asked my STBXW to respect boudaries such as not relaying info thru kids but it seems to still happen. They mention things in a manner that sounds like it's coming from their mom to me. It's really tricky to deal with. I've not indicated that they are doing anything wrong. I did state that mom and I communicate thru email and that these are things for mom to communicate to me directly. That seemed to upset DD12. No anger, no tone of voice change from me. Still all smiles. Just part of regular dinner talk. Tamagochis, waterparks, food, and mom. ????????????

As far as communicating "she's dead to me" the kids know that mom hasn't access to me. They don't see me meet her when she picks up or drops off kids. I don't talk to her on phone, etc. Just email. Not something I've talked directly to kids about. But they do know why the family has broken up. They know that I'm not keeping them from their mom or vice versa. They've probably noticed that I don't encourage contact with their mom though. I will neither hinder nor encourage contact.
They do know that what has happened is a consequence of their mothers actions. And once again this sux.

I think your being a teacher brings a lot of perspective to this discussion. It's all good.

I'll be back (In best Terminator voice).
BoB

As far as poisoning the well. Kids generally know more than you think. They can recognize lies and exaggeration. Although you can't control what your wife says to them, try to be careful what you say about her. In the long run negative comments and behavior on either side will do a lot of damage to the kids. I think, the bigger the war, the worse the potential damage....

The best you can do is when a child mentions W's negative comments point out that even adults get angry and say things they don't really mean, mom and dad are doing the best they can to get through this difficult time as smoothly as possible, we both will always love and care about you two regardless of what's going on, etc... Just try to allay their fears, be strong for them, reasonable, reassuring, positive, etc... That is what will be best for them....



D8 doesn't have a choice. The courts will decide this. I'd try to be encouraging.... your mom loves you and would miss not seeing you.



A mom who buys things is better than no mom. Even if she lives an "unhealthy" lifestyle.

Parents heal from divorce in about two to three years while kids carry this experience with them their whole lives. In other words, the experiences we have as children often affect us more profoundly than those we encounter as adults (by adulthood most of the important brain development has already occurred).

Root,
I will keep these thoughts in mind and emphasize them more as I talk with DDs.
Thanks.

DD12 and I talked this morning.
She said that she (and DD8) feel safer, more cared for, more cared about, better fed, etc. w/me. She said they didn't feel that way as much at mom's. Her volunteered statements. Mentioned mom keeps disappearing when they are over there. Mom's got other things to do. Leaves with friends when they are there. Hmmmmm... I try not to read to far into this.

On these posts, I've not mentioned too much of what I'm about to say. But maybe it's time to mention this. I will not elaborate on what I'm about to say. I don't want my kids to know about this. I'd think it would be devasting for them:

In this nitemare she has told a couple of people (including her sister, the one I refer to as SIL) that she was embarresed of our children. She made derogratory remarks about them. Very derogratory remarks. Very unkind remarks. I wish I'd written all that was said as to document it. I was shocked to say the least to hear this. Never, ever would I have thought such things could come from her lips.

SIL had kept saying to me during the heat of this nitemare to just take the kids and leave. "F**ck her," she said. "Get your kids and get out of here". I was like, ?????? This is her sister saying this to me.

Like I said, this whole thing is just crazy.

BoB

Friends,
I'm really not a drama queen. And I hope I don't come across as one. I'm known as the stable guy, the guy you can count on, etc. etc. blah, blah, blah...

I will say that my nitemare has heavily shook my foundation. And it keeps shaking.

If I sound crazy sometimes, please understand.

I'm beginning to suspect that A is the minor issue in my nitemare. I'm not a therapist (although I play one on TV ), but PD's are starting to sound more and more a part of my nitemare. And that scares the hell out of me.

BoB

Ok,
One more post...

People ask me if I'm OK all the time, and I'm like, "Yeah, I'm OK". I'm starting to wonder if I am.

Just a thought.

Thanks again for helping me thru this.

BoB