Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums We're separated--What Now? What might she really be communicating?

Agent 99:

Thanks for the reminder about doing the 180! That's exactly what I was trying to achieve. It's a deep thing I'm working on in many areas, not just a one-shot on special occasions.

Two days ago in a brief phone conversation she asked me when I was going to a foreign country (before the separation I had the opportunity to go for two weeks for my profession; it was a great opportunity, and I love to travel; she is terrified of flying and so there was no chance of her coming). Long story short, I turned down the opportunity back in early June, but didn't tell her because I thought it would come across as insincere. This was at the two week or so point of the separation. I wondered all summer if she would clue in that I was supposed to be gone in early August. She finally asked "When are you going????" I replied that I turned it down, and then followed up with a brief email saying that I did so because going at a time of crisis struck me as an example of misplaced priorities (an issue for me in the past), and a denial of the severity of the current situation. I haven't heard from her about these statements. Maybe she is "processing" them to see what to make of them. I am guessing that whatever else she feels, she is surprised by my decision. The "old" me would have galloped right off.

She has no interest in coming here. Then again, I haven't asked. I have asked her to do a few "fun" things together to try to rebuild a sense of togetherness, but she turned all of them down. I stopped doing this in July. Is asking her to go to wine festival (which we would both love) too much pursuit? Can we have "fun" without talking about the relationship, or do we have to talk about some issues first?

Thanks for your replies! Make it a good day.

In my opinion (keeping in mind, my H is moved out, wants to "feel" broken up, doesn't hold out much hope for us-BUT does seem to want to be friends with me..In other words, I haven't made it to the "other side" of this crisis), anyway, in my opinion, you absolutely MUST have "fun" and NOT talk about any R issues.

Is there a way to go with a group of friends to the wine festival? So then you can say "W, we're all going to the wine festival on such and so date and I thought maybe you would like to join us?" Maybe that is more non-threatening and would take some of the pressure off of her. Then she could observe you without feeling like she MUST interact. It would mean you would have to really be at the top of your game and have the best mental attitude possible. If you wanted, maybe you could keep the sitch unstructured enough that if it seems like you guys are having fun, that you could invite her off by herself if she seems open to it. I am thinking more like walking off by yourselves to watch a sunset or whatever.

The other good thing about asking her to attend with a group is that she will feel free to turn you down without any guilt AND you can "be" okay with her decision because she wasn't the main focus of going.

Maybe all you should do is casually mention the festival is coming up and listen to her response.

It could be that the very reason she is starting to peek her head out of the hole and interact with you more is that you aren't pressuring her and she is feeling safer.

Agent 99:

Thanks for your reply, and you may well be right that she's responding to my backing off. At least I hope so! I'm not going back just for the sake of going back; she has stuff to own too.

She has cut herself off from our old couple friends. I continue to see them, and they have been great sources of support. The universe does give us support when we need it! I love reading these boards; they have been a real find. I feel, though I don't have any direct evidence, that my wife is spending a lot of time alone. Perhaps she's made new friends, but I just don't think so. She could do so, of course, but I don't think it's happened yet. The other day, when I was in the house paying bills and she accused me of being "selfish" for being there 15 minutes later than I said I would, she collapsed on the kitchen floor crying and said "My life is so f...ed up." I asked if she wanted to talk. She said no. I left. When I heard her start to cry louder, I went back in one more time asking if she wanted to talk or if there was anything else I could do. She said no, so I left.

How would you interpret her action/statement??? Obviously a cry of pain; she's not someone who's living the high life happy as hell I'm gone. But what else might be going on here? Again, I don't want to be too pessimistic or overly optimistic. Thanks to anyone who cares to comment on this. These boards are wonderful!!!!

She sounds confused.

She sounds scared.

She also sounds like some medication might be in order. (Disclaimer:not a doctor. What do I know?)

I would say a few things. I think you are doing very well not pressuring too much. I think you are doing well reading and going to counseling.

I would suggest that you need to wait for her to come to you. Read this link for additional advice.

Two other things. You are doing this already, but you need to really work on the GAL. You can't push her to do things with you, so you need to pull her. Become such a fun guy that she is curious and wants to follow you. Don't bother asking her to do thing. She is refusing anyway. You have to wait for her.

The other is: someone posted recently that they didn't get anywhere until they truly gave up the relationship and were moving on without the spouse before the spouse decided to reconcile. It can't be an act. You aren't at that point now but if she just won't come around, you might need to just move to Plan B.

Keep in mind you're only a few months into this and it will take years to fix it (my D will be final next week after over three years).

Good luck.

Thanks Agent 99 and builtforspeed. I agree that she's scared. Of what, I won't speculate just yet. I don't want to jump too far into trying to figure things out based on too little evidence, but I do think it was revealing to see her emotion even if she didn't want to talk. I've been wondering if she's happy to be rid of me, but now I don't necessarily think that. She may not want me back, but this is not a woman rejoicing in her freedom.

I've been walking a delicate line between giving her space and trying to trickle out a few examples of change. Her paradigm is that I have been the fault of nearly all (possibly all) problems and her problem has been that she lacked self-esteem and needs to figure out why she took it. She briefly told me that in a phone conversation a few weeks ago. After all my reading I feel it's much more complex than that analysis suggests, which tells me we are a long way from reconciling, if ever. I'm not going to get into a contest over who's the bigger victim (she is), and I'll own my stuff, but at the same time I've identified needs she was not meeting and ways I would like her to change if we are to have a successful future. I'm more than willing to wait to bring up my needs. If I did so now, she wouldn't hear me.

She knows I'm going to therapy, reading a lot, and doing things that I simply did not do or think about three months ago. She's only seen the tip of the iceberg, however. We've had a few brief phone calls (10 minutes or so) where some of this has come out, but mostly I'm laying low. No calling her begging, no calling her or writing long explanations or apologies. I did a couple of letters at the very start of the separation, but quickly backed off as I started reading books. I would like to think that I've given her something to think about; maybe that explains why she seems confused and hasn't filed for divorce. I feel a need to try to subtly show some changes, and that I'm working. To not do any of that, I feel, would lead her to conclude that I'm not being reflective, that I'm the same old self-absorbed person who helped cause her pain.

The optimist in me would like to think that she's noticing these things and trying to figure out if they're real. My wife is smart as can be and a great reader of people. She almost became a psychologist. I understand if she's uncertain; there's a lot of history pulling the other direction. I am willing to be patient because I believe we can still have a wonderful future. I don't want to go back to the old relationship either.

In the meantime, I'm doing OK with GAL. Friends have been great. She seems cut off from our mutual friends; I'm going out with them. I went canoeing with an outdoor rec. program yesterday--first time in a long, long time I've done that, and I loved it. I've joined a new church, and I go twice a week. It has been spiritually rewarding beyond anything I expected. There are a lot of activities there that gear up in the fall, and I look forward to getting involved. It's great to get out into a new circle of people. My wife knows, in general, about these things. She also knows I'm traveling in September to visit my parents, going to a cancer fundraiser for my brother, and visiting cousins in October.

What she doesn't know, however, is that I'm moving to a different apartment in October. It's a bit nicer place, with more space.

I'd like some advice on how to approach her about this. I'm not asking her permission, of course. I'm doing it. I'm not going to drop it on her the day I do it. But, how much should I tell her for my motivations? I feel I should tell her that it will be better for me because (and then list five or so reasons, including more space, nicer amenities in the unit itself, the prettier grounds, the quiet (I live near a busy interstate now) the free use of mountain bikes at the rental office--a new hobby that strikes me as a lot of fun; the wife has mentioned biking in the past; that's not why I'm moving, but it's a factor that will be good for me on the GAL front).

I'm taking a short term lease. I feel I should tell her that as well. I'm not running out on the marriage. I feel she needs to know that, but without a long explanation. Not long after we separated she said she thought I would be sad but just walk away from her. I haven't done that; in fact, I'm so much more focused on her and the relationship than ever. It's truly been my wake-up call, even if it doesn't work out for us in the end the reading and contemplation and renewed relationships with friends and closer ties to family have been valuable. Frankly, I suspect that I've surprised her with my response to the separation. Or at least I'd like to think so.

Given that I was too distant in the marriage, and that she thought I'd simply walk away, does a brief email telling her and briefly noting reasons make sense? I've got someone telling me that I should just tell her the new address and let her pursue me with questions about why I'm doing it. According to this person, that could be a way to open conversation given that it's been relatively lacking. Make her curious, according to this theory. My worry is that she may not make that step and jump to erroneous conclusions that fit some of her preconceived beliefs about me.
And, that at a time when she may be trying, in however, small a way, to reach out, simply moving with little explanation up front from me would signal I was turning away. There is such a danger of misinterpreting signals at a time like this.

Anyway, thanks for reading and my thanks to anyone who shares their thoughts. This board is truly inspirational. I'm so glad I found Michele's books and this community. Make it a good day.

Dave,

I have this book called "100 Bulls**t Jobs and How to Get Them" by Stanley Bing. The characterization of a Marriage Counselor was this - helps couples complete the destruction of their marriage.

So there is some sense to what he says, but I am an optimist...and a happily divorced man.

IMP

You may also want to check out Dr. Kreidman and the Passionate Marriage. My friends swear by these books. I agree that my MC did little to nothing for us, but it was OK for me. he just lied and twiddled the whole time as some kind of prerequisite to get out of the marraige. Maybe individial TH would be OK.