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Wow- round trip ticket would only be around $300 if I work within the airline's schedule...HMMM.....

Morgan-
I saw on your other thread that you were talking yourself out of going to the BBQ. (I hope you made it anyway.) I know what you mean, though. There is a big BBQ today that I had wanted to go to..until today. Now I just feel pooped. I vascillate between mental violent anger (for instance, imagining smashing inanimate objects; screaming; cursing; stomping) and then I immediately break down into tears. I don't know why I was "handling" this so much better before. Must have been denial or something.

I hope Dom checks in soon and explains his going dark comment.
I wonder if MaxP is having a fab time in Turkey. My H is probably going there in the fall for work for a couple weeks.
Lucky!Gosh! <-----To be said like Napoleon Dynamite

I posted this in the Newcomers' forum (under Mkultra's post), but I thought I should add it to my thread since I actually don't frequent Newcomers.

I haven't gotten the e-book yet, but it seems to me that this could go hand in hand with going dark...? I think perhaps I should brush up on what going dark is; maybe I am using the wrong terminology.

I have read the thread <regarding Homer's ebook> (and TotalWomans thread) with great interest.
Don't know about your religious beliefs, but in the last 4 days I have been being pounded over the head to turn things over to God. First, a client/friend called to check on me and asked if I was going to church (nope.) Then I got a card in the mail from a friend of mine (and H) and it said that she was praying for both of us-- I left it where H would see it when he picked up his mail and camping stuff.
THEN, I was talking with one of my team partners and bemoaning the real estate market and the marriage and he was upbeat. I said "What are you smoking that makes *you* so happy?!" and he said "It's called Chritianity. I have wanted to talk to you about this. You need to give the problems of your marriage to God. Don't give up on the marriage itself, but turn all the detail over to God and have faith."

I saw an interesting thread about the Power of a Praying Wife.
I prayed to God yesterday afternoon that he help my marriage, help me find peace and help me get some *business* so I can support myself. Within 20 minutes my partner called to ask if I wanted to show a listing; and these buyers look VERY promising.

I think that this Homer thread is something I need to pay attention to. I have been praying for a "sign" of what my next step is. I log on to DB this morning and TotalWoman's thread is first thing on the board, and the last thing posted was this link. And within this thread (maybe via links) is the theme of the power of prayer and detaching.

Seems like many of us could benefit from reading it (the ebook).

I shall be interested in seeing if any gets it and finds success.

I have picked up two books from Stormie Omartian (thank goodness for half price books). I wish Homer's book wasn't so danged expensive!

honestly, I don't pray enough anymore. not sure why. I don't know that it will help at this point. can't even remember the last time I went to church, other than when I lit a candle in st. patricks over memorial day weekend. sounds like I'm giving up on god, which I'm not. trust me, I implore him for strength often.

what i do know is that I am getting tired of self help books. I have so many at this point...db/dr, deep river within, 2 on helping kids deal with divorce, crucial conversations, and a few other random ones. I'm burning out, and starting to feel like charlotte on sex and the city (anyone remember the episode with, "starting over, yet again?").

sorry, I'm just bitter today.

It's understandable that your sick of self help books. My main goal in getting the prayer type books was for some specific guidance. I don't go to church and I am not sure I have been praying for the right thing.

I feel as if I have been stuck in a 'negative feedback' loop. This year, so far, has been hell. And not just maritally. I am still sad that my daughter gave up her baby, but I know it was the right thing to do. Selling our rental (first home) was a very expensive and an emotional strain. Watching my real estate business dwindle has created a lot fear. And now this thing with H.

Well, I know there isn't anything in particular that I can say that would make you feel better; but do know that I am watching your thread.

BLech!

Everytime the phone rings my stomach does flips. I know that at some point he will be calling to tell me he is going to be back to get his car...

My intellect says to be upbeat, friendly, "ok" with things.

My heart is saying the opposite. I think I could pull it off for a little bit, but if he mentioned another woman or whatever, I don't think I could keep myself together. Detaching is SO much easier said than done.

(((HUGS)))

stay strong, agent99, stay strong.

I still haven't cracked open the DR book to get info on going dark, but if going dark is not calling or emailing, then I have already been doing that.

It's really not that different from when we were together, though. We never really talked often when he was at work and when he went out of town, we rarely talked, and I would hardly ever be the one to initiate contact. So, him moving out almost feels like an extended trip with no return ticket booked. I haven't had any sort of contact with him since Wednesday evening when he called to say he was coming to get the camping stuff. (I guess I 'contacted' him on Thursday with the note and TM, but he didn't 'contact' back.) It's like *he* is going dark on *me*!

On a happier note; showed houses last night. Cute cute couple. Recently divorced. Both looked on e-harmony and match and didn't find anyone they really connected with. They live next door to each other and that's how they met. (That's how my H and I met too, but I wasn't going to tell them that.) Anyhoo-they were talking about online dating, etc, I mentioned I was going thru a separation and just wanted to find some friends, and now she is talking about getting me out sailing with her and her guy friends. We'll see if anything actually comes to pass, but it was nice of her to offer.

Dom R-are you out there? what did you mean about going dark being serious?

Well, there's going "dim/grey", which ammounts to basically just not pursuing. Letting them decide when/if they want to initiate contact. From what I read, this is good on two counts:
1. it stops you from looking needy
2. it gives you a breather, and encourages you to "get a life", instead of chasing after them all the time.



And then there's true "going dark".
This is also known as plan b, from "that other site".
This is "No contact". No calling him. No taking his calls, or anything, unless it's absolutely "required" communication about kids or legal issues. In the full case, you get an "intermediary" to take his calls, and he doesnt get to talk to you directly at all. Now that's Dark. Pitch black, as they say.

If you go down this road "by the book", it is because you cannot stand being hurt by your spouse any more, and you refuse to subject yourself to that any more. It is, in essence, a boundary: "Treat me with respect and consideration; otherwise I do not wish to be around you or speak with you any more".

If you recognize it as enforcing a protective boundary around yourself... then you should recognize that unless you enforce boundaries consistently and thoroughly... your boundaries will not be respected. If you agree with that, then you would need to STAY dark, until such time as they treat you better.
This may take A Very Long Time. If ever.

The MB book (NOT DB book) advocates going dark, as a last resort, when you cant do PMI any more. It says once there, you should stick in it until the spouse agrees to fully recommit to the marriage, as well as treating you better. (and you write a letter to your spouse stating your intentions, so that they are clear on where things are and why). This may take a week, a month, 6 months, 2 years, or "never".

What is your goal, or boundary rule, for going dark? You might have a much lesser one. but make sure that you know what it is before you start. And then make sure that you are willing to stick to it all the way through, rather than decide a week later, "oh i'm sorry i changed my mind: can we still talk?"


Attempting to have boundaries half-way, is worse than no boundaries at all, in some respects. Because it undermines your position if you ever decide to truely enforce them. it will take much, much longer for your spouse to figure out, "Hmm... maybe she really means it this time".



Also, it's tempting to "go dark" in retaliation. This is always a bad idea. Retaliation, is a bad idea, no matter what way you look at it:

If you wish to reconcile, then patterns of retaliation, usually make things worse.
If you wish to "cut them loose"... then it makes no sense to get MORE involved with them, in a retaliation mindset. Just let them go, and forget about them as much as is possible.

The MB book, describes the purpose as "to protect remaining positive feelings that you have for your spouse", rather than to have them eroded by their negative treatment of you, and also to avoid you getting angry at them by whatever affair/activities they may be continuing to do. You dont talk to them. you dont even check up on them, directly or indirectly. The "dark" goes both ways, you might say.

As you can see, this is pretty serious stuff. So you should wait a few days before deciding to go down that road, rather than it just being a spur of the moment kind of thing.

PS: the dr book doesnt HAVE any "going dark" stuff in it.
It's really a mb concept, not a dr or db concept. So it's funny to see it brought up a lot around here.

db book is more about incremental changes: not pursuing, etc.
Even the "last resort technique", isnt "going dark". people misuse that around here, but if you go reread the book: it isnt.
(page 180 )

the "dr" book, briefly mentions the "after the Last Resort Technique". That's about equivalent. It's not in "db".
And it isnt even in the index, in DR. I think it's briefly mentioned in one of the "back" chapters.

Dom R, thanks for the page number. I'll check it out.

I can see why you say going dark is serious stuff. I don't really want to write a plan b letter and go thru an intermediary, etc. That seems extreme (kinda) and I'm not sure it would get me to my ultimate goal. I don't think he is treating me poorly (per se). I mean, I don't believe he is being malicious or even inconsiderate. He is just moving forward while I watch him go and it hurts like hell.

The only advantage to going dark really is that I wouldn't be subjected to any further hurt. When he talks about his life and what he is doing, I know it shouldn't hurt me, but it does.

I know I should have faith that everything will work out for the best (whatever that is) and for short periods of time, I do believe that. But then I think about this or that good quality of his and I miss him. Or I just feel like a rejected old hag who's going to die all alone. Probably the biggest advantage I can see to Homer's approach is that a person's self esteem can be bolstered. I don't want any hot and heavy relationship; just some validation from the opposite sex that I'm not a complete failure as a woman. Is that so wrong?