Thirty minutes to an hour a day is a LOT to start with! In fact, that sounds darn near impossible.
Why not set a timer for 15 minutes, and spend the time saying things you like about each other instead of the vague directive to "talk about your relationship." IOW keep it positive at first so both get over the scariness of talking about this stuff.
Yeah, it's going to be difficult, but I think 15 mins is difficult enough... holy crap! an hour a DAY talking about feelings right out of the gate? To me that's a directive to crash and burn. (Pardon my inter-species racing metaphors.)
First, let me say how much I appreciate all of you checking up on my thread. It is very encouraging and muy comforting to know I'm not adrift on this sea.
Lil, yes, I did think your suggestion made lots of sense. In an attempt to try to establish some sort of "grown-up" time, I arranged a standing date with my W every other Thursday (payday for me). We have been doing this for about six months now. It is at this lunch date that I approached the topic of R talk with my wife.
It actually went pretty well, once I got through the initial discomfort of it. i was able to own my gloom and subsequent withdrawl yesterday in response to the MC session, and was also able to talk about the personal growth issues I was facing and dealing with. What made it so easy to talk about was the fact that I was just sharing; not attempting to cause her to feel or react in any certain way. It really felt great to just let go! I still feel very cool about it all!
She, on the other hand, didn't talk much. she did listen, from what I could tell. I am not sure about her level of trust in me at this point. I have really thrashed her emotionally in the past, knew what buttons to push, etc. I am sure at least part of our current distance is simply her keeping me at arm's length. Hopefully, she'll get past that. For me, it's all about show, don't tell right now. Other than her being aware that I am working through some personal issues right now, she really doesn't need specifics. Just for me to be, walk, talk, and act like the man I am becoming will have to be enough.
An interesting side note: Yesterday my S5 had his gameboy taken away from him by my W as punishment for some infraction. He was quite upset with her, and stormed off to his room. A minute or so later, he came out and, pointing his finger at her, said "No snuggle time for you until day after tommorow!"
Snuggle time is the time when he will curl up on her lap and just nestle into mommy's arms. W and S5 will have this time at least once a day, usually right before bedtime.
In watching this little drama play out I realized that he learned this exact behaviour from ME! I react in exactly this same way if I feel I am unfairly treated. Or unfairly criticized. Or criticized at all. Or nagged. It doesn't really matter if the unfairness, nagging, or criticizm is real or just the way I percieve it, I have reacted this exact way, withholding regular intimate contact. Wow, I gotta talk to this kid. Now.
Corri, thanks for the two links. I am just through the intro and first chapter of "EC for Everybody", and I have only browsed the "Going Up" link, but it looks interesting too.
Yesterday, my funk just seemed to get worse and worse. I couldn't understand the sudden nose-dive. I eventually realized that I had missed my AD drugs the previous day. I took them and, low and behold, much better! I had no idea that missing a dose would affect me so radically! I seem to remember some discussion about this very phenomenon earlier on the BB. I think it was either Crazy Eddie, or perhaps he was just commenting on the incident, but at any rate, the combination of no ADs and the generally depressing MC session really sent me into a tail spin. I'm so much better today I feel rather manic.
Anyway, band practice tonight, so no gym, but a couple of beers and some jamming. Can't hurt.
Oh, and GGB, What are the WWME dialogs? And how long have all of you been on the BB? I get the impression, especially from Corri, Cobra, Hairdog, and GGB that you all have been around for some time.
Thanks Everybody
LM
Lucky me, I could have been someone else FOREVER! Whew, that was close!
Well, I've recharged the batteries somewhat, and have settled into the new month. A good time to set a few short term goals, eh? First, a little journaling / catch-up.
I have come to a point in my journey where I need to assimilate all of the info I have gathered. I have so much information from so many different sources, that it seems to me that I need to really step back and allow it all to gel. I believe the only way forward is to begin to put some of this information to use. Not that I haven't been working with the information; I just haven't trusted that I had all I needed. I do know this: most everything that I have well and truly done (for me, and not to try to manipulate my W) has made me happier. Everything I have done in a manipulative manner, or with expectations attached, or in fear of what my W's reaction would be, has made me less happy.
I know I am a strong enneagram type 5w4 and tend to continue to collect data and information, all the while assuming that if I only had that "one more bit" of info I would be able to see the big picture and take the concrete steps necessary to fix my R. Obviously, this is folly. Not that the R is unfixable (it may be), but to wait for some sort of epiphany, some revelation to take place is a waste of what precious time I do have. My tendency to procrastinate; to internalize this information and fantasize different outcomes sabotage whatever concrete steps I should be taking toward engaging in the "real life" aspects of my growth. I have fantasized entire scenarios, including scripts, where my M ends up in D and I find someone who "gets" me, or where my M slowly begins to rebuild, and ends up being all I could want. I also have a few bleaker scenarios, based on insecurity and fear, but let's not go there.
The bottom line is that I have allowed these self-sabotaging tendencies and behaviours to short-circuit my life.
I have enough data. I have good insight as to what work needs doing within my own head. I have enough experience to know that the things done for me, by me are important and valuable in thier own right, creating a solid baseline of happiness from which to address my desires for my R. A solid baseline from which to attach boundaries. A solid baseline from which to explore what my long term goals are, and what I want out of the rest of my life.
Time to start some serious "doing", else I will likely end up "being done" (and not in a good way!).
I do work out on a regular basis, no matter what. I do set aside time each evening to work on my songs I do get enough sleep I do treat myself weekly for maintaining focus on these goals
Hmmm...that should be enough for now. I'll post updates sporadically
A couple of personal shout-outs, (if you're out there):
Hi Corri, please don't feel as though you have to respond. Your personal encouragement has really meant a lot to me, and I will always enjoy your .02, but I can understand the weariness that your continual emotional investment must create. Much love, and all the best. P.S. - You're right, this IS pretty cool, and scary too!
Hi MrsCAC and Lil, I have to say that some of the most useful insights into my internal motivations and general weirdness has come from finding the enneagram information. It really hit me spot-on, and I have some great tools to work with as far as my personal growth is concerned.
Hi Chrome, GGB, Cobra, and DIY, Man, this no f*cking thing SUCKS, huh? Seriously, I follow all of your situations and threads, and have been hesitant to post because I am still such a complete noob when it comes to relationships, that I kind of am working under the geas of "first, do no harm". As my feet come up under me, I'll try to post on your threads. (a complete procrastination move, I know)
Hi MJ, girl, you are the sh*t! I'm still trying to figure out my whole puppy-dog, wolf, lion, monkey-boy vibe, and anything you could do to clarify all these would be greatly appreciated.
Hi Martelo and hairdog, Thanks for posting on my thread. I don't know much about your respective situations, but hope things are better than when you first got here. They are for me, if just because of the "not aloneness" of all of you.
LM
Lucky me, I could have been someone else FOREVER! Whew, that was close!
My W and I are still friendly, living life as sort of roommates, taking care of the kids, one day at a time, etc. The only unsettling exception to this groove is that I have been aware of my CLF transmogrifying into CLR (Continuous Low-level Resentment) at times. A NG trait, I believe. I wonder why she doesn't just SEE who I am, what I am doing, and sit at my feet, all sweet and sexy. The CLR spurs me to react in a typical Nice Guy/Passive Aggressive way, kind of diffident, distant, and unengaged. I realize that this is not helping my cause. If she will ever trust that I will be fully committed and engaged in our R, it will start with me NOT reacting in the same old fashion. It creates a completely predictable reaction in W. I think DIY said it best when he stated on another thread "Revenge begets revenge". Absolutely a lose-lose, unless I want to feast on the cold leftovers of my so-called "righteous indignation" and pretend I'm being fed.
OK, so the knowledge that something is bad is OK. The actions one must take regarding that knowledge...well, sometimes a bit tough.
As far as I am concerned, other than no sex, (which is bad, don't get me wrong) things are good. My plan to DO as stated earlier this week is going OK, not great. I guess you have to start somewhere. Let's see, in the past three days I have:
Worked on music: twice Worked out at gym: twice Got in bed at a reasonable hour (say, midnight): twice
Yes I do believe I see a pattern. I am reasonably good at doing at least two of three activities on a regular basis. Maybe I need to add one so I can shoot for three of four, eh?
I am thinking, based on the figures above, that I will consider the week to be a success only when I average more than 2.5 a day. Damn, no reward this week! I won't be working out tonight, my D15 is in the color guard at a big cross-town rivalry HS football game tonight. I'm taking my boys, should be great!
I have a question for one and all, but particularly any ladies who would be interested in answering:
Up until our recent (around three weeks ago) outing as referred to here:
Originally Posted By: LuckyMe!
We recently went out to a Blues show, did some dancing, had a couple of beers, and when we got home, I was relaxed, confident, and put the moves on her. Shutout. I didn't get upset, just asked her why. She said she didn't know what she felt or what she was going to do. Still not upset (thanks to this board, I maintained composure), I let her know that her indecision was hurting me. I tried not to put pressure on her for a resolution or a specific timetable, but I'm sure she feels pressured just the same.
I had been slowly getting more and more physical with my W, not too grabby, but touching her arm or waist as we passed in the hall or kitchen, laying my hand/arm on her hip in bed (like the old days), just little things. I have stopped doing any of that since that night. She has not reacted or said anything about it one way or another, but I was wondering what she may be thinking about it. Do you think she is relieved I am giving her space, or is she perceiving this as a punishment / PA scenario?
Last edited by LuckyMe!; 09/07/0706:59 PM.
LM
Lucky me, I could have been someone else FOREVER! Whew, that was close!
