Is it any less enjoyable to play tennis if you called your friend to play tennis instead of them calling you to play tennis? Isn't the point that you are playing tennis?
It might be if you spent the whole time believing that your friend didn't really want to play tennis, but was just going along with it to make you happy, or shut you up, or get you to stop calling, etc., etc. After all, if your friend *really* wanted to play tennis, he would have called right?
This is the exact same example I used (tennis) a while ago. I think this is very clear-- validation or no validation, when you're talking about fcuking, you have to have someone to play with.
Kind of. I don't even know if I expressed myself right. It's less that you have to have someone to play with then that you have to WANT to play and you have to translate that desire into action. The fact that you will therefore have to find a partner follows from the desire to play. After about the fifth or sixth time I had sex with NG, I was sitting in his bed and I suddenly had the thought "I'm beautiful." and it had nothing to do with any validation I was getting from NG. He never said anything like that and I don't even believe that he thinks that. It was just me being self-validating because I wanted something ( great sex) and I kept plugging away until I got it. I was proud of myself in a way or a context that made me feel "beautiful." So, I guess what I'm really saying is that self-validation comes from self-esteem and true self-esteem only comes from true or righteous action in the direction of your values, wants, desires or preferences. I don't think that you can simply "think" yourself "beautiful."
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Now, to have sex, I must be the instigator...in the first she is doing me because she HAS to do me.
Why do you believe she HAS to do you? Is she incapable of saying no?
So by your definition of being an instigator does it mean that a man who asks a woman on a date is not getting validation that she is interested in him? The only way he can be validated is if she asks him out? What about a man asking a woman to marry him? Is her saying yes "validating"?
Is it possible we are mixing validation of ourselves by others with the idea of enjoying that someone likes us, wants to make dinner for us, wants to make love to us, wants to buy something for us, wants to spend time with us, etc. I think there is a difference between validation and EXPRESSION OF FEELINGS.
I hope you don't want your wife to ML to you to validate yourself as a man. Do you want her to express how she feels about you by making love to you rather than keeping a clean house? Do you believe that she does not love you because she does not desire you (at least not in a way you can recognize)?
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
Chrom That is not necessarily a problem, so long as her response to the instigation is loving and/or validating....instigate is only a problem if it is met with rejection on a frequent basis for no good reason. I agree with you Chrom.
Cemar compare this to YEARS ago when my wife would reach over and BLOW me while I am driving down the interstate. Maybe she did that because it was new and different. Maybe she was insecure and thought that is how to keep a guy. Maybe she did that because someone said that is a way to get a guy to like you. Maybe she did it for you and she didn't like that much but she wanted/liked something else from the R.
A W that spontaneously leans over and give you a BJ is a cool thing (never happened to me It never happened to me, but I did get a few HJ's.:)
I'm not saying you shouldn't strive for the cool stuff, but not having it doesn't make everything else bad. KWIM? Ditto.
Fearless - Is it any less enjoyable to play tennis if you called your friend to play tennis instead of them calling you to play tennis? Isn't the point that you are playing tennis?
Mrs. CAC4 - It might be if you spent the whole time believing that your friend didn't really want to play tennis, but was just going along with it to make you happy, or shut you up, or get you to stop calling, etc., etc. After all, if your friend *really* wanted to play tennis, he would have called right?
But then again if your friend had to call you, then now that friend has to have all the same anxiety. He has to worry the whole time that YOU really didn't want to play tennis but are only doing it for him.
Do people really live their lives thinking like this? I think I would go mad.
I TRUST that my friends say yes because they WANT to say yes. A friend had asked about getting together last fall and I said sure but I want to watch the OSU football game if that's okay. She replied "no, it's not so I'll just do some scrapbooking that night." Neither of us was upset with the other because we both expressed our needs and they just didn't match up. It didn't mean that we didn't like each other any more or were any less of friends because she didn't validate my OSU interest and I didn't validate her scrapbooking interest.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
Mojo Sex without the need for validation is the best because you KNOW that you are desirable, f*ckable, sexy, wonderfully sexual etc. before the sex even begins and so does your partner. OK, I buy that.
You know an unwilling or reluctant partner doesn't say you are F'able, sexy, wanted for anything physical, or even just the fact you think something is fun.
Maybe its not so much the validation from sex but the de-validation from the real or perceived rejection that messes people up.
Exactly! No matter how we may try to differentiate, if we have sex with someone, we will feel some level of connection, otherwise we are a robot. So when rejected, we can not help but feel hurt. True differentiation is only theory, IMO. Sort of like calculus, you can try to approach the limit of differentiation but never actually reach it.
Kettricken That is *assuming* you have a partner who will at least play. As opposed to one who just lies there and grudgingly tolerates your evil lust (unless that's what you like). That *would* feel like nothing more than masturbation (worse, actually, because at least with a blow-up doll you aren't getting the message that you're wasting their precious time), and (sorry but it's true) feels inherently DE-validating (if that's a word). Exactly! Or being a pest/slight pervert/something out of someones comfort zone.
I an not saying there is anything wrong with what I want, I know there isn't. The miss-match is uncomfortable.
