Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums We're separated--What Now? Trying to set those goals!

dont be silly.. I dont claim to be always right... and besides which, i'm not always clear, either your "arguing" is just "discussing", and that's neccessary to make sure we understand each other properly....



carefull.. thinking about setting boundaries "on someone" can lead to attempts to control someone. i think you are still in that mindset, slightly.
Boundaries, i think, are suposed to be,
"If you do not treat me with respect [in this area], i will then change something about ME, to protect myself"
with that in mind...


The "boundary" in question, is him not dating other people. He hasnt crossed it yet, so going just by the boundaries issue... you have no cause to stop seeing him.
You do need to make clear, though, that if he crosses that boundary, you will then protect yourself by enforcing it. by "not being part of a harem".


Note that this is a different boundary. this is a "I'm not easy: you have to treat me nicely, aka 'date' me, to receive physical affection from me" boundary.


I think sticking to the one you have about physical affection, and making clear about the other one, are the two biggies.

As for the other stuff.. he's playing mind games with himself. Possibly he knows he wants to date other people, but he just doesnt want to admit it fully yet, until you two are "fully separated/broken up". As soon as you are, that facade will drop and he'll go out trying to date, i would guess.

So... you have a choice of strategies, that I can see, as mentioned before:

1. "open the door", let him go, dont even try to "stop" him dating, let him wallow in it, and hope he decides to come back to you after screwing around

2. "entice him back"; make yourself available to him, and attractive to him. Maybe you shouldnt be totally turned-off on him. maybe a real kiss or two every now and again. Holding affection over his head directly as basically a forceful twist-your-arm tactic, isnt attractive. "take me out or you get nothing" works for happily married couples with a strong relationship. but in your situation, probably a bit more subtlety would help.
You need to entice him to date you, not bargain him into it.

Maybe a bit of a flirt now and again... to encourage him to ask you out.

again.. dating time. How would you encourage a guy to ask you out? and keep his interest in you, rather than looking elsewhere becuase you're an ice cube?

Maybe it's time to turn up the heat a bit. wear some sexy stuff that you know drives him nuts, and drop (not so) subtle hints like, "oh my, its been so long since i've [gone and seen/eaten at....] I kinda miss that place".
If he suggests "why dont you go", say it's no fun to go there alone.. etc.



go find a flirting coach. i suck at it

Agent99 - you are handling yourself so much better than I did during our sep. My H is back as you know, and I have heard EXACTLY this phrase come out of his mouth. He's mad at me and resents me now for the way I acted, because he "knew" I'd always be here and it actually upset him.



Funny, mine said this, too. "You didn't give me a chance to miss you."

Now... that said, it's HIS responsibility and you shouldn't take it on you to make sure he gets whatever it is he needs. But keep yourself accountable, don't accept treatment that's unacceptable to you. If you've read any of Oldtimer's posts to me or others on Boundaries, they are really good. I still haven't really "grasped" this yet, but the key component is that the boundaries are about you, not about controlling someone else.

Dom said it really well - change something about YOU and YOUR actions to protect yourself, if your boundaries are violated. You don't have to tell him what those boundaries are - he hasn't earned the right to know, and it's not about him anyway.



This is a big risk, but if you're ready to take it, it might work.

I also think the other alternative is Dom's second approach. And I completely, 100% agree not to "bargain" with him on it. He knows if he wants sex, all he has to do is take you on XYZ type of date. Yuck... how is that a challenge, or respectful treatment of yourself?? It isn't. Instead see how the date goes, how the chemistry is, if things are "heating up" and you really FEEL it (not in a logical, "should I or shouldn't I" frame of mind).

I think if you go with this, I'd also suggest that you NOT make dating too easy. Flirt, but then be on your way out the door to go out with friends (in aforementioned sexy outfit). Don't give too many details about where you're going or what you're doing. When you were first casually dating were you always available? Probably not, you probably had other plans sometimes. So do the same now - and don't make the mistake I did, canceling other things to go on the date with H. Don't constantly reject him of course and make sure it's nicely - "Aw man that sounds like so much fun but I already have plans! Maybe another time?" works.

I also agree on the dropping hints, but I'd leave off the "it's no fun to go alone" - it reinforces/implies that H is your only source of social or emotional support, you don't have anyone else to go with... so my response instead would be "I just haven't had a chance to plan it yet" or something like that.

Hope that helps some.

Thanks you two.

I truly believe the only way to 'right this wrong' is to be more of a challenge. When we were first dating, I did ALL the wrong things. He has never, ever had to wonder if I would be available/there for him.

He wants to feel completely separated and says he does not want to 'date' me- he also believes that if he takes me out on X amount of 'dates' he will get sex (which isn't true, and I tried to tell him that wasn't the case, but he doesn't believe me.) He is totally cocky, believing that he could talk me into anything if he really wanted to. (you know, he 'doesn't want to lead me on'.) And now, he is acting "honorable" and trying to keep himself in check. (Because, after all, he doesn't think *I* will keep him in check.) [The last couple statements are from my head, not his lips.]

I saw my counselor this morning and she just kept shaking her head, because he doesn't make sense. When he was seeing her, they would talk the whole time about all the good things about me and the marriage and it would end with him saying "I don't know what my problem is."

At this point, the "go out on a date issue" is really not an issue. I don't think he *will* ask me out on a date. I guess I will cross that bridge if it comes to that.

Let's say he *does* eventually call and ask me out-- do I say "Are you dating anyone else?"

I really don't think I can talk to him anymore. Or at least not for awhile.

He just called to let me know that he planned to come over tomorrow "early afternoon" to get stuff because he's going camping for the weekend. (Do you know how many times *I* said *I* wanted to go camping?! and we never went!!!!!!!!!!!! Admittedly, I had suggested renting an RV, so he would probably assume that I would refuse to tent, but how would he know?)

I wasn't good enough to spend time with; for him to commit to the marriage.

I was cordial/reserved with him. He asked if I would be home and I said I wasn't sure, but that he knew where all the stuff was. And he was like 'yeah. ok. Well, I just thought I would call and let you know." and I was like "Thanks for that." Him "ok" Me "ok.bye"

And now I am here bawling my eyes out. He has such a huge advantage over me; he works for a HUGE company (thousands of employees) and has been setting up this single life for quite some time. I, on the other hand, work for myself and was (stupidly) dedicated to the marriage. And now the summer is coming to an end. God, I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOO jealous and I wish I was getting to go. I feel so alone.

When do I stop caring? I can't believe how much I miss him. I suppose good DBing would have been to say "oooo, that sounds like a great time!! Hope you have a blast! Where are you gonna go? Oh, awesome! Who's going? Neato!"

What about this--First, I try to make sure that I am gone; the only thing that could screw that up is I have the cable guy coming tomorrow and I don't know what exact time he'll be here. But let's assume the cable guy is done by 10am. I do have a singing lesson at 1:30, so I do have to leave by 1 to get there, so more than likely I won't be here when he gets here. I just won't come home when I'm done. Anyhoo--

What if I leave a note near the mail spot (where I leave his mail) that says "J- Sorry I missed you. Camping! That's so awesome- I'm totally jealous Feel free to take the pop in the garage and the beer in the fridge. Here's some stuff from the pantry I don't think I'll ever eat, so maybe you can use it.
Hope you have a great time- 99"

You might question the jealous statement, but I would like him to know that I wouldn't have been opposed to going tent camping. And I really will put a smiley face in the note-- I do that a lot when I hand write things.

What do you think? (And I do not believe that I could pull it off in person. I mean, I think I could keep myself together, but I don't think I could act happy.)

((((Agent99))))

I know, I get so mad when I realize that H has been setting this up for months/years and I'm playing catch up... mad at him and myself.

DO NOT beat yourself up. You did fine. You sounded cordial, that's all that matters - you saved the desparate crying for here. Do you know what an accomplishment that is?? Pat yourself on the back. Really. You don't have to be over the top excited, just cordial. How would you react to a coworker excited for a camping trip? Shoot for that "level" with H too.

As to the note... you're overdoing it a bit... just say "Have fun!! I'm totally jealous." But not the rest about the pop, the beer, the food... let him fend for himself. I think the jealous is good actually, lets him see you might like the tent thing, and I think the smiley is good to help convey the tone. Would you say this part to a coworker? My guess is yes.. so go with that. Would you invite them to take your food, pop, and beer? Probably not.

And most important - plan something fun FOR YOU this weekend!! What are you going to do??

Thanks Nikki
Yeah, shorter is probably better. As far as the food goes- he still grabs stuff to take to his apartment; a ziploc bag of sugar, pop I don't drink, vitamins; if he was a coworker I would probably give him the food; I would only be giving him stuff that I would never use. If I don't give it to him, it'll end up at the foodbank; but yeah, maybe that is too nice.

I better plan something. I have a new listing, so part of my time is going to be dedicated to doing the marketing pieces.

heya.. quick post-n-run:

1. yeah, definately dont make things TOO easy for him. good idea

2. if he is officially "living over there".. no way he should have free run of your house. that is waaay "too easy on him". You might even consider changing the locks, if you want to blow the money. That would shake him up.

3. Men are stupid There's a reason he's doing all these things now, that you have been asking for. I say: ask him why.
Dopnt make it too wide and vague: you'll get the best progress with most men, if you ask specific questions, that they can give you specific answers for. Ask him why he's going camping now, when you wanted to go camping with him for a long time.
Maybe start by expressing *general* interest, that you've always liked camping, both cabin based and tent based. yet at the same time, dont "directly" ask to come along.

This shouldnt need saying, but you didnt seem to catch on last time, so..

IF HE INVITES YOU, GO WITH HIM



Be warned, though.. there is a potential he is going camping with another woman. (Who the hell goes camping alone?!)
Asking him about that, point blank, will get you nowhere, so dont do it. If he was, he'd just lie. But if you get to see what he's taking... try to notice things that dont make sense for only one person.


PS: on the "should you ask if he's dating anyone else, if he asks you out?" question: I'd say yes, ask.
When he says no, then "ok, then I accept". (if it sounds like a nice date

I imagine that he is going with a group of people from work. But that is what I imagine. Of course, that doesn't mean that there isn't a woman he likes going.

I also imagine if I asked *why* he is finally doing these things *now* he would say that he is trying to be independent and make a life for himself. (that is what he said about volunteering.) He said that he isn't jumping for joy about living on his own, but he "isn't going to let himself get all depressed, either". He keeps referencing being independent and if I give him the look of "what are you talking about, you were going to bars without me" he says "I'm not talking about Independent Behavior. That wasn't doing me any good. I mean being on my own."

Good news-the cable guy just got done, so I am free to leave whenever I want.

He also is in the habit now of taken a camera with him whenever he goes and does stuff with his friends and taking pictures. He didn't do that when we were together. I feel like all our time together is just worthless; not good enough to be recorded.

I don't know why I am bothering to stand. I feel completely hopeless.

Interesting/irritating that he already said that about volunteering.

but... he also invited you to volunteering, and you blew that one. (although you might recover on that one sometime in the future, maybe)
Try again, just inquring on the "why camping now", line, and see how it goes

also, remember that the reason he SAYS why he is doing something... isnt neccessarily the truth. Or, it may be only half the truth. or...


A counsellor told me: this kinda stuff isnt a sprint. it's a marathon. you have to pace yourself.

Sounds like you're worn out after some sprinting.
take a breather.

I don't think I blew the volunteering thing; really. It only came up because my grandparents need help remodeling their downstairs and he said he would like to help-if my family wouldn't feel too weird about it. *Then* he mentioned volunteering. Then I made the face. Then he said we could do it together. (If I hadn't made the face, I don't think he would have suggested it.) When we were at our cars I said "what did you mean, "we could do it together"?" (I wasn't sure if he meant helping my grandparents or volunteering.) and he said "What do you think I meant? I meant volunteer." And I said "oh. okay." in a neutral to happy way.

I won't be here to ask 'why camping now'. I know what he'll say - he'll say because The Group or Joe Blow asked him to go. Just like the beer float (rafts tied together floating down a river) he went on. He gets invited to things.

Besides, I'm not sure what he could say that would be helpful. He could say "I have wanted to go for a long time." (And I will feel rejected because he wouldn't go with me.) He could say "My friends from work invited me." (And I will feel alone because I don't have a big network of single friends.) He could say "Because I thought about how you mentioned it in the past, and it *does* seem like a good idea, now that I think about it." (And I will think, why couldn't you have done that when we were still together?) He could say "Summer has gotten away from me and I wanted to make sure I got out camping at least once." (And I will think about how we were *supposed* to go camping and rent a Harley late July for our anniversary; that we were supposed to be camping together..)

Maybe there is some scenario/answer I didn't think of. I agree I am worn out from sprinting. Every time i try to sit this round out, he calls or we have contact. I feel like I have had stitches put in for a gaping wound, and just when the skin is starting to knit back together, he comes by to check the stitches by yanking them out and testing the scar.