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SVEJK....

Whoaaaaaaoooaaoooaa...you are trying to control the running of the bulls in Spain and you will be the one to be trampled...have you ever seen them run?...Do they look scared or what?...Do they looked confused?...Do they have direction?...Meet your W!

You are trying to look at a runaway train and tell it to stop...

You are assuming way way way too much...she could have a different OM, several OM, no OM...you don't KNOW you are ASS-U-ME-ing and YOU NEED TO STOP!!!...that you can control...

You are obsessed with your wife's lonliness...obviously she felt lonely with you which is why you are where you are...she has stepped close to you...are your reactions different...are you giving her space...or are you sharing with her your ideas on what she is doing with her life like you have here...actions speak louder then words and if your actions are speaking for you you don't need to write that letter for her to know what you are thinking about her...

My friend...what YOU REALLY REALLY REALLY need to work on is patience and understanding the OTHER PERSON'S (your W)feelings...I suspect your W is testing you in this area (and yes she sounds like she is in a MLC but could be repeating her past actions from 1st marriage in which case you had better act differently then 1st H)...my H was gone for nearly 2 years...he would go for months with NO CONTACT...and we had children!!!....he needed his space...he didn't miss me...he didn't give me signs of hope...you need to have patience...your W is begging you to let her go...if you do and she returns then it will be HER decision...the one thing my H wanted was for things to be HIS DECISION!!!...he didn't want anyone to think I coerced him to do anything...

I can tell you that if you continue on in your assumptions, whether they are true or not, your checking up on her at 4 am in the morning, thinking about her and OM...you will not only drive yourself crazy but you will succeed in driving your W away permanently...

A month is NOT a long time in the life of a MLC'er...and should it come and go...should she decide she has had enough...you need to dig your heels in more and hang on because this ride is going to get bumpier...very very very few MLC'ers return home in a month...and if they do it isn't to stay and the next exit is usually much uglier...

Right now your W needs reassurance from you...reassurance that you are strong and not needy (which by the way you sound really really needy too and maybe you need to focus on why)...that you can love unconditionally...that you will give her time and space...that you will trust her to make the right (final) decision...that you will excuse her mistakes...and that nothing is totally unforgiveable (depends upon you...but God forgives those who repent and seek it...BUT he doesn't go running after them and asking them if they want it!)

I know I sound harsh...but trust me...I have been in your shoes...and I have walked the path you are starting down...and unless you get hold of yourself...GAL...start looking to yourself to see what changes you NEED to make so that you are attractive (not talking all physical here)...make lasting changes because YOU feel they are good for YOU and not JUST to win your W back...you will keep repeating the same misery over and over until one of you files and is granted a DIVORCE!!!

So calm down...and do some soul searching...and get some patience...patience....patience...patience....did I mention you need to get some patience???

No matter how bleak this all looks...because mine was really bleak and dark for like a year and a half...this battle can be fought...and it can be won...I am proof!

Take care....Lin

BTW...Sandi2 sent me over

Lin,

Thanks for your post. Wow, 2 years, I wish I could have that kind of patience, but I doubt I ever will. I've only been separated for 6 months and I am seriously considering ending it soon. The only reason I've been able to hang on this long is because of the help on this forum.

The first 5 months I was certainly driving my wife further and further away by not giving her space and constantly trying to question what she was doing. The last few weeks I've been doing things right when dealing with her while venting my frustrations on this forum.

The last few weeks I have given her space and our only contact has been initiated by her. Even then I didn't handle it very well until the last couple of weeks, when I finally stopped talking about our relationship and just letting her choose what we talk about. And I've finally started to GAL and she has noticed and commented on the changes she has seen in the last couple weeks.

The problem is I know for a fact that she has had physical relationships while we've been separated because she told me. You are right that I am assuming she is having one now, but there is a lot of evidence that she is. I don't talk to her about it and keep it to myself. She brings up OM I think just to see how I will react. The last few times she has brought up OM I have outwardly ignored it, even though I was burning inside. She told me yesterday that her friends set her up on a blind date but it didn't work out. I said nothing and ignored it. She is probably testing me, but telling me this information is simply cruel on her part.

So you are right that I am driving myself crazy by checking up on her, but she doesn't know that I'm checking up on her. I'm trying to stop, but the pain of knowing she has been with other men is unbearable.

I completely understand your point that if she comes back she needs it to be on her terms without being coerced, but in the meantime I think she keeps contact with me to keep me hanging in there so that she knows she has someone to come back to, while she plays the field. She tells me that she really misses me and she hopes things work out between us. I think I am her safety blanket and I don't know if I should or how I can let her know that this is unacceptable to me. I'm always there for her when she needs something and it's hard for me to stop and she knows it. She even asked me the other day if I had been dating someone else and she was very relieved when I said no.

Even though I didn't ask about labor day, or about any future plans involving us together, she made sure to let me know that she had plans for labor day and that I shouldn't ask her to do anything over labor day.

BTW, all this contact and conversation is initiated by her, so I'm not even trying to get any info out of her anymore.

Simply put, I understand that her behavior is probably normal for a WAW. I'm just not sure I can handle it for as long as it's going to take, but I'm trying.

Svejk

Hi,

How are you making it today? I hope you don't mind that I asked a couple of friends that have been a big influence on me to call on you with some advice. They have been through it and know a lot better than I as to guidance right now.

Now that I see your W's age, I would probably think MLC may be also playing a big part in her life. Is she dressing younger/sexier, wearing more make-up, acting younger, change hair color, etc.? Now, I was a lot older when it hit me, so there is no magic number for MLC. Plus, I don't think I was in it as long as most people. Hopefully, I finally came to the point I could accept who and what I am and go on with my life. But, at any age, when a woman feels that she has lost her looks, youth, love, etc., it does a number on her ego/self-esteem. She starts looking for another man to give her what she needs, if her own husband lacks in that area. Although, my H was good to try to compliment me, I wanted to hear it from someone else. Maybe that is part of the MLC....I really don't know. I knew he would think that about me simply b/c he loved me. I wanted unbiased viewpoints. So, I went seeking OM over the internet. I wasn't really looking for love, but the "feel-good" thrill that they fed me. It was like a drug and I never realized that until I got on here and imLin and AmyC (and some others)let me have it! But that is what I needed...someone to shake me until I listen to some sense. Every thing they told me was true, but I was so much in that "fog" until I couldn't see it at first. Plus, just b/c I came on this board did not mean that I still wasn't desiring to contact the OM. That was a real battle for me to win. I have to kind of deal with it like a drug addict. Especially in the beginning I took it an hour at a time. Then, I could say, Ok, I got through today....now I will work on tomorrow when it comes. But, I wanted the "feeling of falling in love". That "high" is like a drug and you don't want to come down. But, we couldn't live like that day in and day out. We weren't designed to hold up under that kind of emotional pressure.

You asked me what my H did to change my mind. Remember, I never left him....I just wanted to. The most important thing was the fact he back off....and he did it quickly. He knew I meant business when I told him to give me space! And he did....plenty of it...and yet without being rude, crude or obvious. In other words, he was acting pretty normal, whereas when he discovered the OM, he was acting....well, kind of like you were. It drove him crazy.

Did I love my H? Yes! Did I want to hurt him? No! But, my space and privacy was so valuable/important to me that I would have thrown ....are you listening?.....I would have thrown 41+ years down the drain to get away from him!!! I hated the way he acted, talked, etc. after he discovered the OM. I couldn't stand to be around him. He smothered me to death...asking questions, watching me....all of it. For one reason, that was not him! He had never done that before. After learning about the OM, he would snoop,ease drop,check out the computer's history, etc. So, it does a number on the spouse....the EA/PA. I understand that!

Before I saw her age, I really thought your W would be younger. She sounded younger. For some reason, she seems to want to make you jealous. IMHO, that is why she is telling you about the dates, etc. She wants you to know these things. Why? Just to hurt you? I don't really think so. There is another reason. Have you hurt her in the past? Have you ignored her that long? Have you made her feel unattractive or boring? There is some reason she finds it necessary to tell you about how exciting her life is without you.

I know it must be the hardest thing in this world to do....the things imLIN said to do. But, if she is worth it...you can do it. That's the key. Is she worth it? Do you want her that badly? I wondered when I read your reply. Don't misunderstand...we are on your side. However, it does take so much work on the LBS! As you've been told, you are the only one you can change. And by the way, until you realize that you DO need to change...it isn't going to work out. My H couldn't really see the areas he needed to change. So, there is still work to be done. My point is this....you've got to do it if you get her back.

I think she still loves you or she would not care one flip that you knew what she was doing or that OM were involved or she wouldn't take the time to answer the phone. She wouldn't still run back to you when she was let down by somebody else (if that's the case). But, she is very, very fragile right now. She will probably continue to be fragile for quite a while. So again, I ask you....is she worth it?

Read again about doing the 180. She has got to hear and see the changes in you. But the important factor is this...those changes are not to win her back, it is to make you a better person....even if she doesn't come home. And, don't expect her to come running home after doing the 180 for a couple of weeks, cause she is not going to trust it at first. You've got to prove it out over a period of time. These are for you...to last the rest of your life. When she is convenced...then she will be ready.

I hope that you will follow the advice from the books and the people on this board that have been in the same boat or the WAS. That is the only thing that will work.

Let me hear how you are doing.


Sandi2

Hi Sandi2,

Thank you for asking your friends for advice. I really appreciate it. Lin's advice, and your advice, are very helpful and exactly what I need to do. But actually overcoming the panic of losing my wife and the obsession over the OM makes it difficult. It is getting easier thanks to the advice I've received here. My only regret is not coming here a long time ago... I hope it's not too late.

Stopping the pursuit of my W and calming down over the OM has actually made me feel much better over the last few days, plus it is helping my relationship with her.

You are right about my W dressing sexier and acting younger. She has even told me that she feels like if she isn't going to be with me that she needs to find someone now before she gets too old. I can tell she craves the attention she is getting because she is extremely good looking and sexy. Even though she is 42, she could easily pass for 32.

You are also correct that I hurt her in the past. When we were having difficult times regarding stepkids, money, etc. I didn't react very nicely and I did demean her and make her feel like crap instead of communicating properly. I haven't done that for a couple of years, but the damage was already done, and she had already checked out mentally a couple years ago. I also never told her enough how beautiful she was and how much I loved her. All these mistakes I would never make again now that I realize what I have lost. I would do anything to keep her happy if I ever got her back again.

The things she tells me sometimes seem like she is trying to hurt me, because it hurts like crazy. But I don't think she is trying to hurt me. Sometimes I think she wants to see my reaction to see if I will slip up and get angry, but I've been ignoring the hurtful comments even though I'm steaming inside.

She tells me the biggest obstacle to getting back together is actually trusting that I will treat her like she deserves to be treated. I know the only way to get her to trust me is to give her space and show her that I can respect her wishes, so I am doing that now, along with 180's in my behvavior.

I don't argue with her at all and I have completely changed the way I talk to her over the last few weeks. No more pursuing or begging. She has mentioned that she can see that I am strong again.

A few weeks ago she was dead set on ending the relationship and getting a divorce, but now she tells me she is confused about what to do. I think this is a good sign that I am doing something right.

My W is definitely worth the struggle to win her back. I just need calm down, work on my patience, stop snooping, and leave her alone. Somedays are more difficult than others though, and fortunately I can vent here instead of calling her and screwing things up.

Thanks,
Svejk

Last night my wife asked me to come over and we had a nice conversation, that she initiated, about our relationship.

Her feeling is that she is confused about what she wants out of life at this point, and she doesn't feel good about herself. She is going out and parting and dressing sexy because she loves the attention she is getting from men, but she is not happy with the choices she is making like drinking and hanging out with a bad crowd.

She volunteered that she is only talking to the OM and there is no PA, but I'm not so sure and I didn't ask because I'm sure she wouldn't tell me the truth anyway.

Even through all the tough times we have gone through recently ahe always wants me to hug her and even kisses me, but lately she doesn't want any physical contact at all. This is probably a huge assumption on my part , but I believe she has feelings for OM and that is why the sudden lack of contact with me.

She indicated that she really loves the changes I have made in myself and she says that she is the problem now. She indicates the obstacle to us restoring our relationship is her confusion about what she wants and how she is not happy with herself at this point. On some days she really wants us to eventually get back together and on others she feels it is hopeless.

She is talking independently to a therapist and he is recommending some kind of weekend retreat where she can "find herself". She is considering doing this towards the end of the month.

I told her I will continue to give her space to figure things out and be there for her if she needs help. It's very frustrating when there is nothing you can do to help.

Svejk

Hi, hope you are doing better by now. Yes, I feel that your W is afraid to trust you again. It will be a test for both of you.....

I think perhaps she has a combination of some MLC, low self-esteem, and depression all mixed together. She is confused and she really doesn't know what she wants right now. I have been in that same boat, so she is being honest. A week-end away may be helpful, but if she stays away and has no contact with you...I hope she will do the same by the OM. Otherwise, it won't help anything and may cause more damage to your M.

I know it was hard to admit to hurting your W. However, it helps to know where we mess up and what we need to work on to get back what we have lost. Right now, she must see the very best you can be at all times. In time, hopefully, you will get another chance to prove to her that you want to treat her like a priceless queen (your queen) instead of a pile of dog poop.

I think that once a spouse demeans the other one...it does cause some serious damage. I'm not sure that a person would ever get over that, but I guess it would depend on that individual and their love, strength, and ability to forgive. It is bad that we so hurt the one we love the most...the worst of all. I pray that you will get to prove your love for her for a very long time.

Let me know how things go.

Sandi2

Since I'm having some trouble dealing with my W when we have contact I thought I'd write some notes to remind me of what I need to concentrate on for my situation. Please feel free to correct me or make additions:

- stop calling W unless necessary for finances, etc. Give her space! Don't try to make excuses to call her.

- when W comes over or calls try to decline at least some meetings and try to end meetings/conversations before she ends them

- when speaking with W act cool, calm, and collected with a PMA.

- when W makes hurtful negative comments about relationship ignore them, do not panic and ask what's wrong or follow her, let her go, it's only a temporary feeling on her part

- do not talk about relationship with W and if she brings it up just listen

- if W is complaining to me about pain in her life from decisions she has made relating to our situation, do not offer help, just listen

- do not ask W questions about her plans, where she has been, or about OM

- stop snooping! You are only hurting yourself and risking any chances with W if she finds out

- continue working on yourself, GAL, and patience, patience, patience

- if W makes positive comments about your relationship, do not overreact or take it too seriously until it happens repeatedly

- if W makes comments regarding her future life plans that don't include you, don't panic or ask why, just listen

Svejk

svejk, it's so hard at times to follow the DB techniques, but oh so easy to break them and even easier to forget to use them. It is funny that you post this for yourself right now. I am just getting ready to go to bed and I have decided to revisit the LRT section of DR, since I have all but forgotten everything I have learned and broke so many DB techniques over the past 5 days. I have got to get back on track.

My car needed repairs and my W was nice enough to shuttle me to work and back to the dealership after work. So we had dinner together.

She told me that she fears losing me and that she thinks about it everyday. She asked how long I will put up with her confusion about out relationship.

A few weeks ago I would have answered, "I'll wait forever." But this time I said, "I can't tell how long I will wait, because I don't know, but I'm trying right now. I only know that I can't wait forever."

This is actually how I feel, and I'm not sure this was the best answer, but it's certainly better than, "I'll wait forever."

She also asked, "What would you say if I asked to move back in with you tonight?"

I replied, "I would say no, because it's obvious that you aren't ready, and it would not work."

Again, this is better than a few weeks ago when I would have said, "I'll rent the moving truck tomorrow."

I'm not sure what her statements are meant to achieve, but I think she is testing me to see if I'm strong, unlike a few weeks ago when I was so weak. And also to see if she still has me on the hook to come back to no matter what she does.

I still made mistakes at dinner because I got sucked into relationship talk, and instead of just listening I had to put in my two-cents worth also. Sometimes I think it is beneficial to talk about some relationship stuff she brings up, because it seems to put her at ease that I don't show any anger like I used to when difficult subjects came up. My anger used to be a huge problem that was one of the primary reasons that led to her leaving. Now I am totally calm, no matter what we talk about, and she notices.

It's obvious that I need more resolve in showing her nicely that I'm not waiting for her like a puppy dog anymore, so that she will think harder about what she will be losing. I made that mistake for the first few months and I can't keep repeating it.

I think you have made some major progress here, congralulations! The answers you gave at dinner were spot on, you are getting stronger and are showing a man that W would be fortunate to come back to.
The unfortunate part is that there could be a bunch more time involved. I have been at this quite awhile and get much of the same from my w when R talk does come up, which is few and far between now. There is no definite time period, but my original goal was to be back as a couple by March, well that has come and gone. I don't know how much more is left in me, as I am sure you don't.
The point being, just when you feel you are at the end of your rope, reevaluate the reasons why you want your w in your life and gauge at that time. We each need to grow and evolve into the person we want to be, in the end I hope you and W can evolve into the couple you both want. For now, you can only "fix" yourself.
I also wanted to thank the others who have posted (sandi and imlin) your words have spoken to me as well.