Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums THE SEX-STARVED MARRIAGE Schnarch & Self-validation/ Answer to Cobra

What Schnarch says is that ALL marriages are prone to sexual dysfunction - it is a "growing pain". Basically, it is a developmental milestone and is supposed to happen so we get the opportnity to grow up emotionally. He considers very few marriages truly dysfunctional. Most of these mentioned here would be considered "normal" given his example.

Thanks Karen.

By the way Raven and I will be down your way on Saturday. Another DB'r is having a cookout in the Calvert County area. Burgbud SHOULD be there too. You probably won't have time but I thought I would mention it.

How's the little one???

It seems to me that he was either being dishonest with himself or dishonest with you but I don't know how you could ever tell the difference. My 2bx once told me that I didn't act like a woman who wanted sex. Probably the same sort of obvious projection.

Fearless,

I guess the crux of my position is over the theoretical “ideal” of self validation that healthy, functional people should be able to exercise, versus the rest of us messed up folk. I’ve never met the former, but the world seems to be filled with the latter. While the “ideal” makes for a good goal, the reality is that most of never get there.

With that in mind, can we truly be happy with only self validation? I think the answer is no. We can get to some level of contentedness, but I think that pales to the true happiness that a “soul mate” type of relationship can bring. I don’t think any of us messed up folk can ever reach this “soul mate” level of happiness on our own.

Self validation is very important though. It is a necessary foundation for other things, including other-validation, IMO. So I am not discounting other-validation, I just don’t believe it is a path to true “soul mate” type happiness in its own right. So maybe in a sense we do agree.

As for Passionate Marriage, if you have not read it yet, then I suggest you do so. IMO, it is far above any other relationship book I have read. The description you posted from the website seems a little misleading. Perhaps the ultimate goal of Passionate Marriage is achieved by becoming “functional,” but the whole book is about transforming from dysfunctional to functional. Like Karen say, that is more the norm that the exception, so maybe it is functional.


Heywire,

I don't think you are naive - but in order for something to be possible, particularly in a R, there has to be TWO people willing to do the "work"

I don’t believe this is true at all. One person can make a change. The problem I see on this board is that the one person usually does not understand the issues of both parties well enough, and for each positive step made by that person, another backward or sabotaging step is also made.

Many people here are still in the early stages of recovery, even if they have been on the board for years. Time spent at each stage has nothing to do with the necessary growth to advance to the next. For instance, some are coming to see they can wield their own power. That creates a change, but the relationship just shifts to a new position and then gets stuck again. So there really isn’t much progress, even though the one person has made some serious changes. What seems to happen too often is that those changes are just new ways to maintaining defenses, preventing vulnerability or exerting control. So it is no wonder the relationship remains stuck.

Fearless:
My XH's main/only? complaint leading up to the beginning of the affair was that I was not "happy" enough. Odd because I didn't feel unhappy at all except for not liking my job. The more I insisted I was not unhappy the more he pushed that I was. Obvious projection now that I understand it.

Mojo:
It seems to me that he was either being dishonest with himself or dishonest with you but I don't know how you could ever tell the difference. My 2bx once told me that I didn't act like a woman who wanted sex. Probably the same sort of obvious projection.

I'm not following you. You think he had other problems with me? He now says that looking back I was a great wife (I think I was overall) and that his issue was his own unhappiness. We weren't perfect people or a perfect couple but we were good together. We liked each other and had fun together. Our friends used to laugh at us because we were always doing things together.

Now while saying I wasn't happy enough might sound minor but it was a BIG issue for him and he brought it up a lot. And my frustration with my job was very bothersome to him but he didn't like any of my ways of handling it either.

Anyway, I was just curious of what you thought he was dishonest about...

Fearless,

Now while saying I wasn't happy enough might sound minor but it was a BIG issue for him and he brought it up a lot.

Come on.... who gets divorced because the spouse is unhappy but that person is happy? Of course its projection. Your ex was the one who was unhappy, but you kept focusing on whether you were happy or not. Since you were not unhappy, his comments made no sense and perhaps you thought it best to ignore his "concern" for you. I can see that.

But I can also see that what he was trying to say, if you can read through his ego, is that your focus on you was not soothing him. You were doing fine in carrying on with your life, but maybe he was starting to fell left out. This is not uncommon for men. In fact, I think it is more common than not. Could there have been a little of CeMar's sitch at play in your previous marriage? Just wondering....

Since you were not unhappy, his comments made no sense and perhaps you thought it best to ignore his "concern" for you.

Nope I did not ignore it. I tried to realistically look at myself because he was so adamant about it. I don't ignore things like that. (Like when you suggested I might be controlling, although I didn't think so I did check around with friends and family and thought about it just to be sure) I agreed with him that I could be "happier" if I got work figured it. I also tried to talk about why my unhappiness was so bothersome to him too. I also asked him if he was unhappy.

But I can also see that what he was trying to say, if you can read through his ego, is that your focus on you was not soothing him.

What?? I always complimented him on being a great attorney, his work in the juvenile court/being a guardian ad litem, his attractiveness to me, etc.

You were doing fine in carrying on with your life, but maybe he was starting to fell left out.

Nope he actually had been pushing away from me for a few years. He thought that I wanted to spend too much time together etc. I was probably the one feeling a bit left out as he developed a friendship with one particular woman he worked with.

Could there have been a little of CeMar's sitch at play in your previous marriage? Just wondering....

I'm not sure what you mean. The "irony" is that I naturally act the way Dr. Laura tells women to do. My XH probably turned me down for sex consistently 5 -10x more than I turned him down from the time we FIRST started dating and throughout the marriage. So am I cemar or was my XH cemar???

Fearless,

Scratch all that... I thought I was seeing something but I can see I don't know enough about your sitch. What you've just said is all new to me.

It's still confusing to me and I was there through all of it!!!

XH now says I did nothing wrong and there was nothing I could have really done other than force him and us into therapy. Obviously I am a normal flawed woman but he meant that there wasn't anything significant. (well other than my inability to read a map especially under pressure and my bias against getting air-conditioning for the house!!!!)

I have no clue really. Your description of your marital problems made me think of a situation in a novel I read. A man left his wife even though they had a good marriage because she was very calm and he wanted to have more emotional effect upon her. He felt like he would know that she really loved him if he felt like he was making her happy. Anyways, he eventually realized that it was a mistake to leave her and they reunited. Clearly the problem was the husband's "need to be needed." Maybe that was your H's problem.

I was unhappy with my H's unhappiness/depression/anhedonia but that was because it manifested itself in tangible ways that made him a poor marital partner.