Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums THE SEX-STARVED MARRIAGE Schnarch & Self-validation/ Answer to Cobra

From Schnarch's website for the passionate marriage.

http://www.passionatemarriage.com/ca_passionate_marriage.shtml

The Passionate Marriage Approach emphasizes life-long sexual development rather than merely curing desire problems or sexual dysfunctions. People get better in bed as they get older. Most people never reach their sexual potential, and those who do are generally into their 40s, 50s, and 60s. This surprises the many people who confuse genital prime with sexual prime, but you are more capable of an intensely intimate sexual relationships as you mature (become more differentiated).

The Passionate Marriage Approach shows how your relationship with yourself controls intimate connection and sexual desire for your partner. Relying on your partner to give you a positive reflected sense of self (as most people do) limits intimacy and desire. However, this revolutionary approach gives you concrete ways to build a solid sense of self while getting closer to your partner and more invested in your relationship.

Most marital enrichment approaches emphasize other-validated intimacy: expecting empathy, reciprocity, and validation from your partner when you disclose. The Passionate Marriage Approach emphasizes self-validated intimacy; validating and accepting your own disclosures, and soothing your own heart. This shift allows you to resolve emotional gridlock, intimacy problems, sexual boredom and low desire, and develop a more passionate loving relationship.

Interesting site - however, it does say:



I don't know about you, but I would say the majority of the people on these boards have "dysfunctional" relationships to some degree so does it really apply?

Answers to Cobra

Fearless,

My point is the same as I mentioned before in response to Lil’s question. Sure we can all be "happy" through self validation but that is never enough, is it?


Why not? I have a desire to be in a relationship. It is not about validation but about the fact I like being in relationships. My great aunt did not choose to be in a relationship and she is a happy joyous person to be around. One of my best friends is not married yet and may not marry and she is a happy person too. Not in the least bitter or anything.

If you were sufficiently happy through your self validation in your previous marriage, why did you get divorced?

My XH left me

Are you happier now with Raven than you were with your ex?

No but I am just as happy and I do think Raven and I have better communication skills. We don't play that game of "are you happier now." The downside, and Raven is aware of this, is that there is a lingering sadness about what might have been with my XH; I never wanted to have a "first" husband. Of course Raven never wanted to be a first husband either. XH and I were a great couple the first 5 years of our marriage and we had potential to become even better. The irony is that the downfall was a combination of his shame issues AND his feeling that his happiness was dependent upon me. So therefore when he was unhappy he believed it was because something was wrong between US. Now he sees this was a problem for him and for us. If he had looked within himself first, he would not have been susceptible to the OW.

Is that because you have found a better way to self validate, or is it because you would rather be with someone who makes you happy than with someone who makes you upset?

I do want to be with someone that wants to be with me.

If your ability to self validate has not markedly changed since your previous marriage, then I think the main factor causing your higher state of happiness could be the difference between Raven and your ex, right? If so, then other validation DOES have an affect on our happiness.

I am consistently working to improve upon myself and increase my self validation. That work will NEVER be completed.

How could it not? In fact, I believe the longer you are together and the closer you become, the more that person becomes your happiness, rather than just adding to it.

Thank god my grandmother didn't feel that way or my grandfather's passing would have devastated her. Instead she was able to mourn his loss without feeling like her life was over. I visited her a week later and it was such a life and love affirming visit. We talked a lot about him and about how my grandmother was coping. It was this strength that attracted him to her in the first place. He was an incredibly strong man who would not have had patience with a weak woman. Okay from watching him with others I KNOW he would have no patience or respect for weak women or men.


IMO, to say that each of us can be happy alone is only theoretical. There may be some who actually prefer to be alone, such as Mojo's ex, but he's the twisted exception. We are human. We get needy and jealous, anxious, and all those other negative emotions, no matter how enlightened or developed we think we might be.

Hey I know a few women that never married and NONE of them were twisted. In addition my grandpa did not did not remarry about his wife died in her 30's and he was a loving caring man who in no way was twisted or bitter.

The love of another person takes us to a level higher than we can achieve through self validation alone.

I would phrase it that the love of another person takes us to a DIFFERENT level than we can achieve on our own. For some it may be higher and for others it may not be higher but still be worthwhile.

But I do recognize that another person can't do this for us until we are first able to self validate, which is the critical part.

So we basically do agree that as nice (IMO) and necessary (in your opinion) as having others validate us is IF we cannot self-validate then other validation is NOT the answer????????????????

If we agree with this, then the rest of our disagreement is pretty minor IMO.

I don't know about you, but I would say the majority of the people on these boards have "dysfunctional" relationships to some degree so does it really apply?

I don't know because I haven't read it yet. It seems to be talked about a lot here so I am not sure what it means by "non-dysfunctional."

I may be naive or optimistic but for me to know what is possible with work is motivational at least. I have never been in a SSM but I guess I would hope that offering a glimpse into non-SSM relations would be helpful especially since many still have most of the same communication problems as SSMs. I know sex/ML/desire all seem like huge issues but you might be surprised to find out that other marriages have just as big of problems surrounding a wife not keeping a clean house, a guy who loves playing golf, watching football, etc., etc.

I don't think you are naive - but in order for something to be possible, particularly in a R, there has to be TWO people willing to do the "work". A lot of the people on these boards are the only ones doing the work and not seeing results for obvious reasons. Some are expecting their S to do the work and not looking inside themselves to see what it is THEY need to do. It is a VERY long road sometimes and not always clear

Also, a SSM is not always necessarily about poor communication skills

I don't know your whole story but it seems to me that even though it is true that introspection could have altered your X's POV, if he had an affair the problem wasn't his feelings of happiness or unhappiness but his behavior resulting from those feelings. I was freakin' miserable in my marriage and I didn't have an affair. Let's say you're married to someone who drinks too much. Does it matter whether they drink too much because they feel like they're unhappy with your marriage or they drink too much because they're unhappy with themselves? Should I have cared whether my 2bx didn't want to have sex with me because he was unhappy with my appearance or because he was unhappy with his job? If your X had an affair, his inability to self-validate wasn't his problem. His problem was his inability to keep his c*ck in his pants.

I can validate myself out the wazoo, but I can't fcuk myself (although it has been suggested from time to time).



I agree with Mojo-- if a guy drinks too much, I don't care why. I just don't want to be around him.

His problem was his inability to keep his c*ck in his pants.

Absolutely that was completely his fault. Just as blaming me for his unhappiness was completely his fault. Without the OW he still might have left me but the OW definitely complicated things. Without going into it too much she was the one who pursued and played all the games just right. If she had done this 5 years before, he would not have been susceptible. BUT that's no excuse because you aren't "allowed" to have an affair if you're unhappy but not allowed if you are happy. An affair is WRONG period.

Cemar might be surprised that I naturally did the things that Dr. Laura suggests. My XH's main/only? complaint leading up to the beginning of the affair was that I was not "happy" enough. Odd because I didn't feel unhappy at all except for not liking my job. The more I insisted I was not unhappy the more he pushed that I was. Obvious projection now that I understand it.

Anyway, I don't know how helpful all the details are anyway other than to say that I didn't choose to leave my XH.

Lillie,

I am not sure we are talking about the same concept. I am saying that to BE f*ckable don't you have to innately KNOW you are??

Then the guys are just validating what you already know about yourself. or are you saying that you have to wait until someone does you they want to have sex with you in order to know that you are f*ckable?

Seriously so right now are you doubting that you are f*ckable because your boyfriend is not interested? Isn't it more likely that HE has the problem than you do??

OR maybe I don't understand the meaning of f*ckable.

Lillie,

i just read your post on Mojo's thread.

Yes I know I am missing the point and that's what I am trying to understand.

So to be clear, as a young woman I would not be able to know that I was a marriageable type of woman UNLESS a man marries me?? I felt like I knew I was going to want to be married and would be a good wife BEFORE anyone asked me to marry them.

I knew I was hireable for jobs before I got a job offer.

Is this the concept we are talking about or am I still missing it??