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LarryL, that is just plain messed up. It is sad how her own selfish behavior is affecting your and her children. It is sad that one day she will realize it, but it will be to late, the damage is already being done by her.

Stay strong brother. Continue to be the bigger, better person.

Nugget - Thanks for the good words. You hang in there.

Larry.

General question for anybody who cares to comment. How do you DB and detach at the same time? Psychologically, they are two mutually contradictory activities, at least for me.

Yeah, working on that. Rain gave me this link:
http://www.coping.org/control/detach.htm
Take a read. It's less about caring, more about letting go of control and actions. Not that it makes it easier

Larry - haven't checked in for awhile, sounds like you're hanging in there.

I am still working on this concept myself, but Oldtimer and others have told me that in a healthy M, you are BOTH detached to a degree. You love each other, choose each other, but don't NEED each other and that's the key.

(am I there yet? no... but it is definitely part of DBing to get there)

Thanks to both of you. The perspective and the link do help.

Nikki - I just posted a little comment on your thread. You can see my W's latest escapade on the previous page here. My S and I move into our apartment next week.

Larry

WOW Larry I'm sorry I had totally missed that.

That's some really disgusting behavior on your W's part. I'm glad you're getting to an apartment and some distance from all the madness.

I know DB is about "lovingly" detaching but it's OK to use that anger sometimes too, to help a bit.

That is exactly what I am struggling with right now. The two seem to work against each other. Hopefully your moving into an apt with your S, will help with the detachment and at the same time help your wife miss you.

I'm curious - how do they work against each other? (Larry and Nugget - question for you both).

NikkiB. I am so glad you ask that question. It caused me to do some research on "detachment". Which in return has cleared up a lot of confusion for me. Here is what I have realized.

Before your question I viewed detach as it is described in the dictionary:

Detach (De-tach") verb (used with object)
1. To part; to separate or disunite; to disengage; -- the opposite of attach;

Does not sound like something that I want to do with my W right now.

To me the overall message of DBing is to meet the needs of your partner, (be there for them, care for them etc.).

So, my logic tells me I can not detach (if I view detach from the dictionary's definition) and I view DBing as being there for the person. They do not work together.

But, now that your question provoced me to research detachment, I have a new understand to wht it means to detach.

Detachment is the:

* Ability to allow people, places, or things the freedom to be themselves.

* Holding back from the need to rescue, save, or fix another person from being sick, dysfunctional, or irrational.

* Giving another person "the space'' to be him or herself.

* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with people.

* Willingness to accept that you cannot change or control a person, place, or thing.

* Developing and maintaining of a safe, emotional distance from someone whom you have previously given a lot of power to affect your emotional outlook on life.

* Establishing of emotional boundaries between you and those people you have become overly enmeshed or dependent with in order that all of you might be able to develop your own sense of autonomy and independence.

* Process by which you are free to feel your own feelings when you see another person falter and fail and not be led by guilt to feel responsible for their failure or faltering.

* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern, and caring without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing, or controlling.

* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective and recognizing that there is a need to back away from the uncontrollable and unchangeable realities of life.

* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to experience greater emotional devastation from having hung on beyond a reasonable and rational point.

* Ability to let people you love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to practice tough love and not give in when they come to you to bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.

* Ability to allow people to be who they "really are'' rather than who you "want them to be.''

* Ability to avoid being hurt, abused, taken advantage of by people who in the past have been overly dependent or enmeshed with you.

SO, now I can see how DBing and detaching go hand and hand. NikkiB, thank you for your thought provoking question. I have a new outlook and game plan now.