Okay everyone -- "last stand talk" draft #3 is here. I plan on presenting it on Thursday the 9th (two days from now). Give me more of your feedback and constructive criticism if you have any. Thanks!
"I know that the D is going to be final on the 16th -- a week from today -- and I just want you to know that I'm still not convinced that it's the best solution for us, and that I believe we can be happy again like we've been in the past; that we can start fresh with a clean slate and enjoy life in a way we both want. If there's any part of you that feels the same way, then I'd like for us to postpone the D and continue with the separation the way it is now, or even file for Legal Separation instead for the time being and put no time limit on things. If later down the road you decide that a D is really for the best, then we can always resume it and I will not stand in your way. I want you to know that over the last few months I've come to realize I will be happy, with or without you -- I really will -- I just prefer it to be with you.
I'm not looking for you to give me an answer right now. I just want to put it out there as something to consider and that's all, and if you'd like to sit down sometime and talk about everything then I'd be more than happy to do that."
I'm now going to work on figuring out what I will say if the conversation continues. I'm going to try to determine what paths the conversation could take and be best prepared to reply to anything W may possibly say. Like Heimlich said, "Luck happens when Opportunity meets Preparation."
Sounds perfect to me GD! The only word I would change is in the part about "if you'd like to sit down sometime and talk about everything then I'd be more than happy to do that", change everything to anything.
Nomo
M 39 W 39 M'd 10 yrs; T 14 yrs S7 D4 Bomb 5-8-05 W not working on M 1-22-07; EA 2-22 DB 4-10 S 6-11 No more C Link
Thanks Nomo! Made that change and one or two other minor ones.
"I know that the D is going to be final on the 16th -- a week from today -- and I just want you to know that I'm still not convinced that it's the best solution for us. I strongly believe we can be happy again like we've been in the past; that we can start fresh with a clean slate and enjoy life in a way we both want. If there's any part of you that feels the same way, then I'd like for us to postpone the D and continue with the separation the way it is now, or even file for Legal Separation instead for the time being and put no time limit on things. If later down the road you decide that a D is really for the best, then we can always resume it and I will not stand in your way. I want you to know that over the last few months I've come to realize I will be happy, with or without you -- I really will -- I just prefer it to be with you.
I'm not looking for you to give me an answer right now. I just want to put it out there as something to consider and that's all, and if you'd like to sit down sometime and talk about anything then I'd be more than happy to do that."
More feedback anyone?
P.S. Thanks for stopping by BM07 -- Haven't talked with W yet since last week so I'm not sure how she's doing (waiting for her to call me back today since I left her a VM earlier). Here is the text message conversation we had Friday evening after I arrived in Seattle:
Me: Hey, it's GD. You can reach me at 123-555-6789 if you need to. Be back Monday night. Thanks again. W: When do you want the kids? Me: Tuesday W: K
Pretty short and to the point. I'm guessing that she had received the cell phone charm and brief note apologizing for the raft trip sitch, and that she had seen it (don't know for sure though). Don't know how she received the gesture yet though. Also, the number I gave to reach me at was from one of the girls who I traveled with. Although it was an Idaho number, I don't think she could've known it was a girl's number. Probably got her wondering though, I'm sure.
I like it. As I said before, I generally like to keep it simple w/as few words as possible, so I'd change the last paragraph to just; "You don't have to answer right now, just something to consider" & leave it at that.
My feeling is that if you have too much you're trying to convey, it comes out sounding scripted, plus has the potential of putting something in that might not work to your advantage.
I also think she'll pipe in with something along the way & it might change the message. I don't know her like you do though & if the text is an example, she won't be big on words.
My feeling is that if you have too much you're trying to convey, it comes out sounding scripted, plus has the potential of putting something in that might not work to your advantage.
I completely agree, and I tried to shave it down to a small statement while maintaining the most potent content (i.e. all of the things I want her to know). It is still a little longer than I would like, but I'm not sure how to cut it down more without taking something away (it's hard for me to be concise). I also agree about the "sounding scripted" part. I will definitely change it up some so it sounds more natural at the point of delivery -- I always end up writing things in a more formal manner than I would actually state them in a heartfelt moment like the last stand talk. Definitely noteworthy, though -- thanks!
Brief journaling,
W just called back a little bit ago, and needed to come out to get a few items. All I can say is WOW! It was by far the best time I've spent with her in 9 months! We talked about a lot of different things, and SHE LINGERED LIKE CRAZY!!! I even had a solid opportunity for the last stand talk and I blew it! Just didn't have the balls to go for it ! She was literally here for about 40 minutes. We talked about D3 and how much of a pill she can be and apparently was for W while I was gone (which I of course empathized with and validated). I asked her about how she was doing, and she volunteered quite a bit about how much she is struggling financially (which I of course empathized with and validated). I asked her about work, which she complained about (and I of course actively listened to, empathized with, and validated). We talked about some of my Seattle trip, but not much. I asked her about her health (i.e. diabetes) and how she was doing. She told me about how it affects her mood and causes her to snap when her blood sugar is high. In reflection, I almost think she was trying to subtley apologize for snapping at me for the raft trip stuff and the burn that D3 got on her thumb; like she only acted this way because her blood sugar was high. Regardless, I still empathized and validated.
And last but definitely not least, we talked about my friend from Hawaii and his W (who my W kind of knows). W asked how my friend's W was doing, and I said good, but that she was pretty mean on the nights she was drunk while I was there. My W became really interested in the dynamic between my friend and his W as I began to explained how they would squabble about little things all day while they were sober, but then break out the verbal assaults when they were drunk, which would lead to physical assaults (mostly coming from my friend's W, at which point he would have to tackle her to make her stop). It was a little awkward to be talking about it, because the mentioning of friend's W being drunk and verbally abusive was 100% congruent with my behaviors at times with W. I would get drunk and let the low blows fly, belittle her, etc. Nothing physical in my sitch, but I was definitely intimidating and threatening, which is basically just as bad in my book. Anyway, W asked questions about the events I witnessed, and seemed to be very interested in it all. I told her about how friend's W seemed unable to admit to her wrong doing the next morning after sobering up, and said I felt like she had too much pride to do so -- too much insecurity. I mean, this woman would spit in my friend's face, call him names, threaten to D him and take half of his Military pension and whatnot away, threaten to get him fired, slap and punch him, etc. I am not exaggerating any of this -- it was very sad to witness and I witnessed this behavior twice while I was there. She would do these things and then not apologize at all the next morning. In fact, she would still blame my friend for the fighting. Another said parallel between these events and my W and I was that I wouldn't admit to my wrongdoings the next day either -- too much pride and insecurity was my issue too.
As I explained all of this to my W, I believe that she was thinking the same things as me, and one thing I liked about this part of our conversation was that I got to in an subtle way demonstrate my understanding of my own mistakes and where I went wrong in our M, and I think my W could see this to some degree. I even went to far as to tell her how my friend told me he was pretty much emotionally detached from his W now, and that the next step was to actually become physically detached. When I explained this, my W gave quite the affirming nod and looked down a bit, seemingly acknowledging that this is exactly what had happened with her. I also told her that I felt that neither my friend nor his W will really be able to admit where they themselves went wrong in the relationship until they break up (hinting again that this is what it took for me to realize these things about myself in our R). It seemed to me that this was the point where the opportunity to bring up the last stand talk presented itself in full force. I had a segue to it, and I failed to connect A to B. However, I think today's talk gives her something to reflect on and definitely makes me feel more comfortable and confident with presenting the last stand talk to her in a few days.
She also made a lot more eye contact with me, and we even smiled and laughed a lot together about lots of different things along the way. I was very easy going, confident, and happy throughout the conversation, and never once brought up our R, the D, etc. W didn't bring up the little card or the cell phone charm either, but by the way we communicated and her lingering, I think it was appreciated at some level (definitely not pushed away by it, it seems). I'm telling you, she lingered like crazy. I would finish saying something and then pause, thinking she would say something about needing to go, lean toward the door, etc -- something. But she didn't, so I would ask her about something else, and she would willing volunteer more info than really necessary. It was like she really wanted to talk to me about it all, and really appreciated my listening to her. It got to the point where I finally started leaning toward the door (I had told her before she came out that I needed to go work out before getting the kids from school) before she did it too.
People, I'm about 80% to 90% sure that there is serious doubt floating around in W's head. I'm really beginning to think I might have something here guys, and if I don't now, I'm evermore certain of the possibility to reconcile post D.
My PMA is skyrocketing!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This was by far the biggest baby step in 9 months! It may not seem like much, but compared to the last 9 months, it is HUGE! I think that today's convo with W had a lot to do with a) the raft trip talk and my ability to stay calm and validate while she got angry with me, b) the D3 burn and again my ability to stay calm, apologize, and validate while she got angry with me, c) the cell phone charm and accompanying note, and d) the fact that the final D date is right around the corner. Man, DBing could give me another chance, and I honestly believe that now with no doubt. It's not about just saving me and making me better anymore -- it is now getting more realistic in terms of saving my M! DBing down to the last minute is undeniably a necessity!
Here's to DBing, Lady Luck, Opportunity and Preparation!
I even had a solid opportunity for the last stand talk and I blew it! Just didn't have the balls to go for it !
Don't look at it like that! Look at it as more prep for your last stand talk. In fact, if you had brought up the talk now, it might have ruined an otherwise GREAT convo. Now you can let this POSITIVE interaction linger in her mind for 48 hours; let those seeds grow baby! I think it may be better that you didn't bring it up.
Will you see her in person Thursday?
Originally Posted By: Gone Dancin'
However, I think today's talk gives her something to reflect on and definitely makes me feel more comfortable and confident with presenting the last stand talk to her in a few days.
Yep!
Originally Posted By: Gone Dancin'
W didn't bring up the little card or the cell phone charm either, but by the way we communicated and her lingering, I think it was appreciated at some level (definitely not pushed away by it, it seems).
I was dying to hear if this came up, but I thin it clearly was appreciated.
Originally Posted By: Gone Dancin'
People, I'm about 80% to 90% sure that there is serious doubt floating around in W's head. I'm really beginning to think I might have something here guys, and if I don't now, I'm evermore certain of the possibility to reconcile post D.
I think the doubts are there. Not sure if she will postpone the D, but you've got nothing to lose and it can only help you (even if it is a post-D scenario). Way to go!!
Originally Posted By: Gone Dancin'
I think that today's convo with W had a lot to do with a) the raft trip talk and my ability to stay calm and validate while she got angry with me, b) the D3 burn and again my ability to stay calm, apologize, and validate while she got angry with me, c) the cell phone charm and accompanying note, and d) the fact that the final D date is right around the corner.
Great analysis. I agree.
Originally Posted By: Gone Dancin'
Here's to DBing, Lady Luck, Opportunity and Preparation!
Agree, agree, agree.
Happy Nomo
M 39 W 39 M'd 10 yrs; T 14 yrs S7 D4 Bomb 5-8-05 W not working on M 1-22-07; EA 2-22 DB 4-10 S 6-11 No more C Link
So Nomo shakes & I cryed.....guess I'm a little too close & any success you have really effects me
Quote:
and one thing I liked about this part of our conversation was that I got to in an subtle way demonstrate my understanding of my own mistakes and where I went wrong in our M, and I think my W could see this to some degree
I agree w/Nomo, this was the perfect staging convo for the next step.
glad you had sooo much fun...and learned a thing or too about your two steppin or hoppin you are just a traveling fool!! good for you!! I'm stoked, leave in one month 5 days (not that i'm counting!!) for Ireland!! glad your back..and home safe!! anxious to hear how the W took the charm!!! your leaving us in suspense!! later, christa
H-32 Me-29 T-10years M-4yr (10/04) Me- WAW 1/07 I filed for D 2/07 D put on hold 5/07 H re-files for D 9/08 WOW! trying MC 10/08
"Work like you don't need the money, dance like nobody is watching, love like you've never been hurt!"
Nomo -- I will see her in person on Thursday. However, as she was leaving she did ask if I could bring the kids to her place instead of her coming out here (since she doesn't have any gas money until Friday). I tried to think up a quick reason for why that wouldn't work, but couldn't so I just told her I can help her out with some gas money if she needs it (insinuating that I'd like her to come out here to pick them up). Almost didn't get the opportunity for the talk there -- it about gave me a heart attack!
Christa,
I talked about the charm sitch a little in my last big post earlier today -- still don't know what she thought about it for sure, but my journaling shows that it didn't seem to push her away by any means (in fact, she seems to have gotten closer and more comfortable with me).
Gonna get the kids a bath, play with them for a bit, and ready for bed -- be back in a few hours everyone!
! She was literally here for about 40 minutes. We talked about D3 and how much of a pill she can be and apparently was for W while I was gone (which I of course empathized with and validated). I asked her about how she was doing, and she volunteered quite a bit about how much she is struggling financially (which I of course empathized with and validated). I asked her about work, which she complained about (and I of course actively listened to, empathized with, and validated). We talked about some of my Seattle trip, but not much. I asked her about her health (i.e. diabetes) and how she was doing. She told me about how it affects her mood and causes her to snap when her blood sugar is high. In reflection, I almost think she was trying to subtley apologize for snapping at me for the raft trip stuff and the burn that D3 got on her thumb; like she only acted this way because her blood sugar was high. Regardless, I still empathized and validated. 
