I have decided to tell him that I am going out of town. I will be gone for a week, and you are right, I wouldn't want him to go out of town and not tell me. He told me the other day that they don't have a refrigerator where he is living. My mom seems to think he might take ours if he knows I am going to be gone. I don't think he would do that, but at this point I wouldn't try to predict anything. We have a guest room that has furniture in it and he had asked for that when he was leaving. I told him no. I had that before we got married and he was not offering to leave me anything...so no. I guess he could try to take some of that, but at this point I don't even know if I care.
Maybe being in the house and around the dog will make him miss being here. Maybe me being gone will make him miss me. Lord knows I miss him.
When I see him at the counseling session tomorrow I am going to tell him to call before he comes over. I don't think it really bothers me that much now that I don't know where he lives, as long as he is telling me the truth about WHO he lives with. I don't know what good it would do me, and he is probably right...I would probably just end up "spying" on him.
My therapist told me not to file for divorce or sign papers unless I wanted too. She said she thinks that he is trying to push me to take that step, and then it will relieve some of his guilt. I am hoping that some of the things that he said about divorce were said out of anger. I say the same for you, let him do all the work and don't make it easy for him.
Well, that's all for now. I'll give an update tomorrow after the counseling session. Wish me luck!
My therapist has also told me not to get angry and go file or tell him that I will do it for him in the past 2 move outs. It is good advice. It is a big step. Therapist has always said if you don't want to get divorced don't take steps to do it for him or help him do it. This round is different. He took all that cash out of 401k and we are trying to keep him away from the attorney he consulted with. There is a 120 waiting or cooling off period in Wi before anything else can happen when you file. I and therapist hope he will cool off in that time period and reconsider. Maybe save us the retainer. I am not so sure at this point. Last night he called and said when are you going to make a decision on the final settlement offer. I said give me until today. He said if you don't I am calling the lawyer. I don't want to wait any longer it been months. (He moved out May 1.) I said well lets set a date to file. Then he backed down and said well I want the settlement done first. Nuts. I hope T is right and he is not going to do it. T has been right on for the most part in the last 4 years and 2 move outs.
You are doing great and you should be hopeful as you are going to counseling together. In the past we have gone and even to the point where H called it divorce counseling! It is a good place to tell him things like please call to arrange a time to come over. Then there is a 3rd party to monitor if things get heated.
Although I don't advocate spying and I highly doubt he is living with anyone other than who he said I can give you a couple of ideas of how to get his address. I have never even rode by where mine lives, though I know where it is because I helped him move out of it in 04 and back to the house. Think of this, any Ow would have a fridge! There is no one else with yours. He is in counseling with you a good thing! I have my anxiety about H wanting this done fast so he can move on with some unknown as yet person. Therapist and everyone says not him. He has put in all his settlement offers that I can't have a live in partner while he is paying me maintenance. He insists on that clause and that if he has a live in partner or remarrys I am no longer beneficary on his term insurance. I said that is to protect my income and if he gets a new girl, he gets a new policy. I finally let both of above go as they will be rewrote if this goes to divorce. I am rambling as I am going a bit nuts!
I have a session today with therapist also. You are doing well and hope to hear how things go today.
Well, he made it to the session today so that is encouraging. The first question she asked him was "Are you done?". After a long hesitation he said he didn't want to say "done" because that made it seem like he was disguisted with our marriage, and that wasn't the case. He is just unhappy with his life. He is questioning all the decisions he has made in life such as joining the air force and getting married. So, she rephrased and said "Is your marriage over?" He said he didn't know...at least he didn't say yes.
The therapist thinks that he is depressed, which I agree with. She thinks he doesn't feel like he knows who he is and that he is questioning and over analyzing decisions he has made and what he wants to do with his life, which I also agree with. She had me tell him who he is, as she thinks that right now I know him better than he knows himself. I think that part went well and will hopefully get him to thinking. She also said we should have at least weekly contact. He agreed to that. She said not to talk about the marriage...just try and be friends first. I can do that.
I came home, and the dog had killed a BIG squirrel and it was on the back patio. Now, I am independent...but I am a total girl when it comes to things like that. So I called H and asked if he would mind coming over and taking care of it. He said he would come. He came over and then he asked if it was ok for him to pay the guy for rent today. I said yes and i appreciated him letting me know. He asked if he needed to tell me everytime he spent money and I said no as long as it would be ok for me to call him and let him know if things were getting low or we needed to cut back. I said this because I feel like if I call him I am "bugging" him, and I told him that. I told him that I debated on even calling him about the squirrel. He said it was fine and I could call him for anything. And then.....he walked over and gave me a hug!! Wow, first physical contact in a while. I didn't get greedy, just hugged back, but it felt SO good.
Also, when he was over here I asked if he would mind feeding the dog next week. He said yes, and then I said "I am going home for a week"...and he said "I know". WHAT!!! I said "How do you know?" He said "I saw your itenerary". Again, WHAT!!! I asked how he saw it and he said it was hanging out of my purse. I highly doubt that. MAYBE it was hanging out, but it was definitely folded up. Man, I don't feel so bad for snooping now.
Anyway, I guess a good session and a good day. No fighting is always good.
This is such good news! Wow a hug! He is thinking over what is going on in his head and he may find out it he that is unhappy and not that he is unhappy with you! Just remember baby steps. He felt good about the counseling session and talking about things. Remember that for the most part guys are not talking about the R or emotional stuff with others. Relief to talk. My therapist says after 28 years with me he misses my input, even if he resents my know it all stuff. Read the Divorce R. Although I am by no means an expert, look at my situation, I would advocate not calling him too much while you are out of town. My guess he is going to call you! Let him miss you and realize this might be how it is if you move back away from him! Believe me you do not want him back too soon. Or you will be doing the move in and move out dance like I have.
I hear you about the squirrel! I can handle all kinds of things and lots bugs here in the wooded lot and house but a dead mouse in the space in the basement to get to pipes! Yuck! I didn't call H, as it is a 25 mile trip one way. I used an old golf club to drag it out into a bag and ran screaming outside to the garbage. I love the woods here and I am in a subdivision. I lived in the city for 20 years when I came here at 18 to go to college. Lots to be afraid of there, 2 legged kind. I have had H come as our garage door fell apart one day as he had not kept the bolts lubricated and I could not get it up to go anywhere.
I am so happy for you! If it isn't me I am sure glad that someone is working on it. On my side I agreed to " settlement" just through email.. My therapist said I did well to do a 180 so that when H said I want your answer I said give me till today and then I said I think we should set a date to file. H somewhat balked at that, said this should be settled first. T told me to email him as H had brought up we should sign this. This is not legal and binding and T said make arrangements to sign it and then he can stop arguing with you and start finding out he is still unhappy. He told me not to push him to file, but be agreeable. KEEPing him away from attorney. I felt anxious but T says I still don't think he is going to go thru with this. I left him a voice mail this a.m. that Settlement was fine as is, email you later. I emailed him to email S to sign or bring it out here. Left him a voice mail that I sent him an email. No answer as yet. Hope this makes him happy. The other thing is my T said as H is such a man of his word that he will honor this agreement even if a lawyer pushes him... you ( me) on the other hand have the right and will change your mind if need be...
Is your dog all alone when you are gone? Remember to do what is working with H. NO fighting is good! Let me know what is going on and as usual thanks for letting me vent a bit too! This is such good news!
Not much to report today. I have been kind of down for some reason. I was actually doing ok the past couple of days, but just really sad today. I am really mad because H asked me to move some money from savings to checking account and he seemed mad when I said no. If we have the money to get by, there is no point in dwindling down our savings just so he can go out to eat and do things with his friends that cost money. He left, so in order to finance this separation he should be frugal. Right?? It's not fair that I feel like I can't spend a dime while he is out having fun. Just frustrating. I am debating on calling him about the money he spent today, 40 bucks for one meal! I am doubting that is for one person. A 180 for me would be to say nothing....but can I just sit back and say nothing while he spends all our money??
I sorry about you sitch Terey. I kind of feel like your T, if he was so eager to get it over with he probably would have done it by now. It seems like he is stalling. Maybe not putting up a fight will get him to thinking.
I am reading DR, but have not finished it yet. I am so ready to go home. I will actually try not to call him at all when I am gone. Any advice on if I should call him now about the money???
I hope you get this before you go. Up down, sad and ok are the norm. You are upset about the money. I guess I would tell him that it is time to draw up a financial plan, a nice word for budget. Not to divorce, just something to work with while you are seperated as you need to get a handle on your finances. In the other move outs mine lived fairly frugal and I by no means lived well but I now I have the house to pay for. This time he splits his check right in half and he made a budget. I have more mortgage but he is paying his car and cc. It is tight. I would suggest that you do something like wise. It is not fair you are paying for the house and he will benefit from it either way. I know how you feel about telling him what to do, mine thinks I am controlling him or dictator to him.... I would take out of your account dollar for dollar what he has taken out for yourself and put it aside. I would then tell him that you will take the savings and split it or more likely I would try and get you to take 2/3 and him a 1/3. Your H has a problem with money as you stated and I guess he does not know what to do on his own and this is his entertainment and he is still living as he was when he was with you. Plus I think guys have a hard time saying to pals or whoever, I'm broke. Ego thing. Us women have no problem saying to friends I'm really broke or strapped and just can't spend 20 on eating out or tickets to something etc. My other thought is to just take all the money and let him get angry. He may be angry either way and you might as well benefit it from it for something big that will help ease your anxiety. He might get just as angry if you tell him that he can't spend, so you might as well just take the cash. I would take it and then tell him we will figure out how to divide when I get back. Tell him you want to talk about it with therapist together. I am guesssing money is an issue with you two overall. You are the responsible one. My concern is he will spend a lot while you are out of town.
I think it is good not to call him while you are home. It is tempting. Make that a goal. Even if you are hurting let him think you are doing fine. Maybe one phone call to check on the dog or you have a house issue. I bet he will call you. I deal with that continual as I miss him. I know you will have a good time, but you may get melancholy. Try hard not to follow your own heart. Well meaning family and friends may say things like honey just let him go, you don't need this etc. I can hardly tell my family any longer what is going on as they see me as so hurt and after all who would put up with 3 move outs! Family loves us and they hate to see us hurting so.
On my end I stupidly colored my own hair and it was such a dark ugly brown instead of auburn I had to go to my salon and have her put highlights in it and although it doesn't look bad, I had natural highlights before. I also used permanent color! What was I thinking. I was thinking I would save 70.00! I managed in the last 2 months to pay for it, I had to pay the same to fix it and I am not too thrilled. Thank goodness for my understanding hairdresser. This is just the kind of nutty thing you do in times like this. I sent an email to H to sign agreement. He emailed me back that as far as he was concerned the verbal was good enough and he is sure we will have to fill out a legal version that requires signatures. He said he forgot to add issue about advancing me a retainer and he will rewrite it and send me a copy. We can use this to move forward with... He then said he needs to find an attorney to do Pro Se divorce as his other one does not do that. As soon as he finds one he will let me know. Please do likewise. This is the best part last sentence. It does not make sense to move forward before we are ready to proceed.
I am trying not to read too much into this. But I do, and I guess when I did the 180 and said lets set a date to file I think that made him step back. I also on the other hand think he is uncomfortable doing anything without an attorney. I told him previously we only need an attorney to look over the final paperwork, this is only half true but he doesn't need to know this. So more time bought, on his side. For someone who wants to move forward so far no filing. I just keep hanging on to not to give up and T tellimg me he doesn't think he is going to go thru with this. I talked in session about how I am so lonely and starting to go a little nuts. Isolating myself. Going to work on that.
When are you leaving? Have a good time. Hang in there. You are doing so well. He is curious about what you are up to by seeing your travel plans. Make sure he can't get on here and read what you are up to! Post when you get back or even from "back home" Terey
Well, I did call him. I called last night and he didn't call back...which was probably better because I was mad. He did call me back at lunch today, which by that time I had calmed down. I told him that I was mad last night, but I was kinda over it today...so no fighting. I just basically told him that I wouldn NOT take money out of savings to fund his eating out/drinking. I also said that it wasn't fair for him to be able to go out and do what he wants while I sit at home feeling like I can't spend a dime. I didn't say it in a mean or demanding way. He said that he was sorry, his excuse was that he had been on standby for work and just gotten of and he got a "wild hair". FYI: While they are on standby (on call), there is no drinking and H never liked to go out and do anything because he didn't want to be doing something and get interrupted with a call. He did say he wouldn't do that anymore..so I guess I'll give him another chance.
Everyone keeps telling me to split up the checking account, but if I do that it just makes it easier for him and harder for me. Even if we split the bills right down the middle (which I don't think he would agree to since he now has his own sep bills) it would be easier for him because he makes more money than me. Although I know he would still be scrounging because he is not good with money. The funny thing is we have NEVER fought about money. He has just always let me handle it and it has always been ok.
It will definitely be easier not to call when I am home. There I have so many friends and family that I will be busy most of the time. My mom has been really understanding through all of this. She is the only person (besides the people here and my T) that has not told me just to leave him or divorce him. She understands that I want him to come back and would understand me accepting him back. I am ignoring the other comments from other people.
Sorry to hear about your hair situation Terey, but at least it is fixed. I hate that. I don't do anything to my own hair because I know I will mess it up. It really sounds like your H is stalling. What is Pro Se divorce? I don't know anything about the actual process or the costs, all I know is that in TX there is a 60 day waiting period...I am guessing after it is filed? Sounds to me like you H is not "ready to proceed". Try just not bringing up the D, although that is probably hard. It is hard for me and H to talk about anything BUT this right now.
I am actually not leaving until next Wednesday, so I'll be updating until then. I am not sure if I will have access to a computer there but if I do, I will get on here. I will delete my history on the computer so he can't see. I don't want to lock it because that might make him mad...since he is helping with the internet bill right now.
Here is what I did propose for the money at one time. Sit down with all your fixed expenses, the mortgage and the taxes being a big one and see if he would agree to pay at least part of of it. I tried to get H to take his rent, 560 ( an effiency in a expensive part of downtown no less, but cheap for here) and our mortgage 800.00 no taxes and insurance on that and add them together and then divide. This gave me more money. He didn't go for it this time! I have things like the water softener rental, 300 a month in property tax, home insurance, lawnmower gas, utilties are high, ( I hope I can have heat this winter he budgeted so little) I also just realized he pays almost a 100 a month to park his car downtown and that is in his side of the equation as he leaves his car in the secure park at office and walks to apt. That comes off his check before he divides his pay! Yikes! List everything you can think of. He budgeted 100 a week for food, 50 a month for cocker spaniel food, no internet and no Direct tv, but figured I could make it up somewhere. Auto gas at 75.00 a month ( he used the 04 budget for that) List everything and see if you can come to an agreement. Keep track of anything you pay for the house like insurance etc. I'm listing some of this so you can get some ideas. He does own half that house. Although you have no intention of D, tell him that you think that he should be contributing something as he will get part of the proceeds. This is the one time I was a bit needy for lack of a better term. He may not have a good idea of what the expenses are if you are like me and you took care of it. Mine completely forgot about the property taxes due end of July this year. Believe me they are not thinking straight. Try and come to an agreement about money that is fair and sell it by saying you don't want to know where he is spending his money, just not fair that you were in a partnership and you are keeping his asset the house safe and struggling. Be a tiny bit needy.
My H has always been so responsible with money and let me tell you what he did with a plasma tv. Three weeks before he moves out our Sony 12 year old tv goes. He does all the research, orders on line a new plasma 42 in tv, 1500.00. All happy with that. Like a few people tell me, what guy buys a dream guy tv and then gets mad and moves out. He was not getting divorced then. I told him not to take tv as I would have a tiny not so great tv. Like you! I took 1500.00 out of our account when he moves as I have little money and that is what is to pay off tv on cc. He is furious. I stole that money, blah, blah. What does he do? He comes over here one day about 2 weeks after he moves out and mumbles something about he is buying himself a tv because that one he has is not so good. I think fine, a 300 tv in his tiny place. NO, I check our cc a few days later and find out he bought the same tv on line and paid 1899.00. I almost passed out while on line with ccompany. That is how I found his address. I logged on Amazon which the credit c company said he ordered it, logged into our acct and there was his address with the bill. I was furious. He is lucky I did not cancel the order as I could have, or had it sent here. So, add, 1500 cash I took, 1500 for first plazma, and 1900.00 for his.... I told him you could have had the one in the house and bought me something at Sams for less. I just need something to watch. I could care less and I can't afford HD anyhow. My wise friend said, the first tv didn't make him happy, this one will not either! This is a guy who is so conservative! He told me that when we divorce he will take that tv out of his half. Good I said! SO he is paying for his tv, half mine and I took his 1500.00! That was an expensive tv.
Wah are not thinking. Believe me. I meant to say go with your heart before. I also think it is good to be a bit mysterious as they call it on here. Even though I am doing close to nothing but work out and go over to girlfriends once in awhile I lead him to believe I am busy. I say things like I can't email you till later as I have plans for tonight. Or I just got back and got your message. Stuff like that. I try to upbeat. I have been crazy and had a meltdown with the dsl on the phone to him. Good your mom is supportive. I made the mistake in my rounds with H to tell my mom too much. She always thought he was Mr. Wonderful and now really doesn't care at all for him. She says things like, well its your life! Not that you should not tell her, just don't let her hate him for you. After all we are their daughters! Hang in there. You are doing great, held your anger in and called later, good move. Anger is our enemy, they want to not like us. We want them to miss us! I vented. Look forward to posts. We should email! Think about that...
Klm, My long ramble and I didn't answer what Pro Se is. It means for yourself or do it your self divorce. It works best for cooperative couples who want to both divorce or if you have a simple straight forward deal with few assets. You can do and save a lot of money. Our courthouse here has a self help center and you can download or buy all the paperwork either for free on line or 10.00. Filing with no children is 185.00 in my county and it is a fairly simple petition to fill out. You can file jointly or separately. After you file you can get a temporary hearing to set up temporary financial arrangements, child support etc. We could waive that as we are set up and it is working for now. Then the 120 day cooling off period starts. The petition can be set aside at any time but only if you both agreed to it. Then you get a court date. If it went that far I would get an attorney and stall. I am afraid of this filing step. H has backed down a bit but only because now he is looking for a lawyer to go over the paperwork at the end which is what you can do. Most people file and deal with this stuff later. It is like he wants all in place way ahead of time. Some of that is his detail orientated stuff, some say it is his way of not doing it. His free consult lawyer wanted a 3000. retainer. Ours may be a bit more complicated, pensions, 401ks,maintenance, social security etc. and we will need lawyers at some point and maybe a financial planner to set up the money side. We also have a house that would need to be transfered to me. H is letting me use my share of 401k for house. Not sure I am going to do that either. T told me not to push him to file or do it for him but try and keep him away from the lawyer by us doing the filing ourselves. Afraid once a lawyer got a hold of him may push him to do things and T thinks that it will just be more money down the drain to a retainer as he does not think H will really do this. T has not let me down in this round 4 years. I have seen him almost every week since Sept of 03.... we have really good insurance. I have to go with his instincts and my own. Then a 120 wait period and we will see if he wants to return. Risky but this needs to be fixed or we end it. I have to hope for the best and be prepared for the worst.
I have really been thinking about the money thing. I think it is kind of a touchy situation because he has never said that he wouldn't help me with bills and I don't want to push him to say that. He called last night and asked if he could take out $40 for their internet and cable hookup fees, I said yes and then he said thank you. When he said that I realized that I don't want him thanking me for letting him use his own money, I just want him to be more responsible about it.
I am thinking about proposing that each of us get a weekly "allowance" to do with what we want. That way he doesn't have to ask me if he can spend money. I think all the other money should stay in the checking account and should only be used for bills, both his and mine. If we use up our allowance, then we are done until the next week...if we have some left over then we can just keep it. I am working on a number for this "allowance". I think that might make him feel like he has more freedom and I wouldn't be obsessing about it. Any ideas?
I am also thinking that selling the house may be a good idea. We have only been here a year, so really have no equity in it. If we did D I wouldn't stay here, so I would want to sell the house anyway. If we did work things out I don't think we would stay here either. We are both from the same place and would both love to move back home.
As far as the address, H still has everything sent here. His mother even called him and told him she had to send him something so where should she send it, and he told her here. She said he didn't live here so she wasn't sending it here, but he still didn't tell her anything. I thought he might write a check to the guy he is renting from so I could at least see his name..but he took out cash. He luckily hasn't made any major purchases. The only credit cards he has are the ones that he is an authorized user on mine. When he moved out I took him off...not sure if he has tried to use them yet.
I have been seeing T every week for about a month, and a couple of time twice a week! That is when we go alone and then together. We have AF insurance, so it is really good. I can go as much as I want, but after so many sessions H will have to get approval from his commander. I think the couseling on his part might be over once that is a requirement.
Thanks for explaining what Pro Se is. I looked up just a little bit on it. I believe that in our county that since he is in the military he has to have my signature to be able to file. I think you can do it without, but not in the military. Maybe that will buy me some time if he actually decides to file. Although if it comes to that I think he would do things to push me to do it. He hasn't mentioned it again since he left and I am hoping that was out of anger. He has actually never said the word divorce, its like he can't even bring himself to say it. He just says he is not sure if he wants to be married or if he should be married.
Terey, feel free to email. You have been very encouraging and I love hearing from you. I also like being posted on your situation, although I don't feel like I am able to offer any advice...I am sure it still helps just to be able to vent.
