OK. She has already said she doesn't want you to meet this "friend." That's it right there. Of course she's allowed to have friends, but she is not allowed to have a special male friend who she talks to all the time and sees frequently, who you are not allowed to meet.
Don't call the guy. Don't call the relative. Don't hire a PI. What would be the point?
I hate to say it, but you screwed up the other day. You spent time with her, had great sex, slept over, and then what--you grilled her for leaving for work a half-hour early?
Your pursuit is what is pushing her away. If she ever does call you back, do not pursue. Don't question her. Let the word "whatever" become your new mantra.
YA know I read your posts and I get the impression that you might want it all your way.
I am not trying to be mean to you but it sounds one way to me.
You want a relationship with her that includes physical intimacy and a life together but only on your terms. She has talked, and even pressured you for a permanent R(marriage) but you are not budging.
You said she is religious and holds these things In high regaurd.
Im'e thinking, to her you wanting to marry her tells her that you truly love her. She might not feel that love with you right now. She is telling you flat out what it would take for her to get rid of the other Guy. I feel she might be looking for someone that wants the same things she does IE: a permanent commitment.
Maybe she isn't using this guy. Maybe she is interested, especially if he wants the same things in life.
You trying to analyze what her pastor will say kind of tells me you want it all your way and a good R doesn't work that way.
I do feel she still loves you thats why the secrecy But that she doesn't know if she can stay with you givin what she wants in life also.
It is a two way street.
Think about it.
JAK
Also: The A 1 year into the R might have been because you didn't want anything permanent either. Maybe she was testing the waters.
Just my OP.
jak
Last edited by jak58; 07/24/0702:48 PM.
You don't get to choose how you're going to die. Or when, you can only decide how you're going to live now. ~Joan Baez
I'm still here. I took a small one day trip to a hotel/casino to collect my thoughts on the matter. It was probably the wrong thing to do (she works there).
She called me prior to that trip (yesterday). I didn't call her first but I did answer. She was calling about a fax she needed to send and asking if she could use my fax machine.
I ended up not following the advice here which I partially regret. I'm not unintelligent. I understand what everyone has said that sometimes if you act uninterested or just don't pay enough attention, it can make the other person more interested or pay more attention. I've done that in the past mostly not on purpose (I do work a lot) and I know that it really works with us sometimes. I'm thinking it may not be the BEST approach because she already gets some of that from me unintentionally. I guess I just feel like that approach could go either way, and so could not playing headgames and just totally making her aware of true honest feelings, so I'm probably shooting myself in the foot, but I had to try things the dumb guy way.
So I made the mistake in that I brought up the subject and forced us to talk about the relationship. She says that for more than two years, she was totally in love with me. Now she says she isn't NOT in love with me, but she isn't in love with me. According to her, she believes that I push her away with my work schedule and my marriage thoughts and being unsupportive. A lot of things.
I've thought so much. I've changed my position and I think it is wrong of me to discourage any future growth in our relationship by automatically exluding things that are very important to her. I think that if I held the values of marriage without a certificate, which I have, but if she wanted/needed that, that it's been selfish of me to say that it would never happen and maybe it actually makes sense for me to consider if everything is right. Does that mean I think it would be a good idea to get married now or propose now? Obviously not. We have other problems now. And they are serious. I know they may or may not even work themselves out.
I believe her when she says she hasn't slept with this guy. She wouldn't answer (long pause) when I asked if she thought she loved him. But she did answer almost immediately when I asked if she ever told him that she loved him with a "why would I tell him that??? We're JUST FRIENDS". Maybe months later I will feel like the biggest dope in the world and find out I've been lied to, but for now, I'm going to believe that, and if so, her and the guy just aren't that serious. If thats true, he's not the real problem. What is serious is that her feelings towards me have changed.
She cried and said she wanted to take things one day at a time but then the guy called while we were talking and she had a work related chat with him in my company (some new work procedure). But it leads me to realize that they've been talking a lot so I know any one day at a time approach to our relationship wouldn't work because she is going to keep getting to know him more, and I'm going to divide us further picking or arguing about calls, time spent away, etc.
So I suggested that if we wanted to work things out maybe for a month we try moving in together (we rarely spend full nights together despite her having pushed for this in the past; I'm an only child with no brothers/sisters so I'm used to sleeping alone in my own house which I realize was relationship-damaging), spending more time together, and her not talking to the guy for a month, and seeing how compatible we are or aren't. She said she'd think about it. Until I get a yes or no, I guess now is where I will just provide some space. She said she would call me.
I know that forcing her to do anything or making her feel guilty enough that she would agree to try isn't going to solve anything. In fact, it might just lead to her sneaking more and being dishonest. This is tough.
Some of this letter today may sound like I'm being manuipulated and blaming myself, and I'm also not feeling sorry for myself in any way and saying I caused this somehow. But I just recognize that there are things that I could have done better in our relationship and they are factors.
It's been such a rollercoaster of emotions. Last night, in the hotel alone, I spent most of it crying. We talked today and I don't want her to think I'm not serious and I don't even care about this but I couldn't muster up any outward emotion (I hate those walls people throw up) but anger and now I almost feel a little okay that I'm alone. But I do know that Thursday and Friday are coming. And she knows it too.
So I guess there is where everybody tells me how much I messed up... and I know to an extent that I did. It's really tough.
Speaking from experience, I would really look at your relationship and decide if it's worth saving. At this point in my life, I can say that if someone I was dating cheated on me, I would never ever marry them. We don't know anything more than you post here, but after being hurt as bad as I've been hurt, I would have done things differently and all we can hope is that our pain and insight will help someone else with their sitches.
My H is currently have an A. He cheated on me three times in an 11 year relationship. #1: It was innocent. We were 18 and 19 and had been together 2.5 years. I think he only went on a date or two with the other girl, but didn't break up with me before or tell me until I was ready to call it quits...then he came crawling back. In hindsight, I should have taken that for clue #1? #2: One-night stand in 10/2004. #3: Started as a one-night stand in 10/2006 but turned into the A from h$ll....it turned him into a crazy man. It is still going on and is living with OW.
There may be more but those are ones that I know about. Found out about #1 right away. Found out about #2 and #3 in 11/2006. I think he is flawed...he's broken. He looks to other people to provide his happiness. He obviously didn't learn from his mistakes and he is paying the ultimate price. He is losing everything...a W that loves him, respect from his family and friends, his home, and his life. All I can say is beware.
I have heard that line "once a cheater, always a cheater" all of my life. And I partially believe it too. But there are other things in my life I've changed permanently for the better so I don't know about that advice. But yes, I'm also definitely considering that even if this wasn't cheating, it's already gone way too far, and just one slipup could've made it the exact same experience I've been through before. And HOW COULD SHE?
So that makes me want to say we should forget it and not work out anything. But wow. Where do you find totally perfect people to date? Everybody makes mistakes. Everybody has negative points. This is somebody that has helped me out of so many bad times. She's shown me in the past that she truly and ginuwinely cared for the real me. We haven't really even known each other in any periods of us both having good times (with the exception of our relationship; I'm talking about no good external factors surrounding the relationship). What I mean is the stress of me losing large businesses to foreclosure, personal bankruptcy, almost house foreclosure, tons of financial difficulties related to my startup of a failing business, days of electricity being shutoff. My life has been hard. The kinds of stresses that I have been through would cause strain on even the most perfect relationship. It's not really better yet. I'm working on this too.
I didn't want to be involved in a relationship while I was starting a business. I knew it would be a distraction and I stayed far away from dating for about 5 years. We were neighbors, then friends, and then she persued me. A beautiful love letter that said that all she wanted was to be loved by me.
If I knew for a fact she would cheat in the future, decsions would be a lot easier, but as much as I hate to type it, I'm not even saying then it's black or white. I don't know what I'm even thinking to type that way but it's true.
I'm sorry that you are going through this because it is hard...it's the unknown...it's the what-ifs. There are no guarantees in life. Anyone can cheat...and a lot do. I am only speaking from my own sitch. I was willing to give my H a second chance because I was standing behind my wedding vows of through better or worse. If there weren't any marriage vows, I would have never stuck this out but my sitch is very crazy. Don't sell yourself short because you are afraid you won't find someone else. Maybe things will work out for you and your gf. In the meantime, work on yourself...be the best man you can be...be it for yourself. I wish you luck...this is a bumpy road...but it will make you a stronger, better person.
M:28, D finalized: 8/28/07 Current Thread
"When life gives you a hundred reasons to cry, show life that you have a thousand reasons to smile."
I do not agree with this. I do personally know people that have cheated and it was just that, A big mistake. A weak moment when they thought they could find what they were longing for with someone else. It doesn't make it right but it does happen. Most often when the lines of communication have broken down. And believe me I know about this been there done that H that is.
"A beautiful love letter that said that all she wanted was to be loved by me."
Im'e sorry if this sounds mean again but, in my Op i think the A( I don't know if I would call it an A more a 1 nite stand) 1 year into your R and being drunk, (as she stated to you) might have been because she felt you were not going any further in your R. And this statement(in the abvoe quotes) tells me that she really does love you and wanted something permenant with you.
By the way I am very proud of the way you are starting to evaluate your views on marriage. But it is still something you have to decide you need also for the two of you. It is part of having a life together that the two of you agree on.
"If I knew for a fact she would cheat in the future, decsions would be a lot easier, but as much as I hate to type it, I'm not even saying then it's black or white. I don't know what I'm even thinking to type that way but it's true."
Nothing is just black and white there are all sorts of circumstances involved most of the time. You are talking about the one slip up and how could she? Because... she might not think the R is going to go any where! She obviously loves you still but the feeling is starting to be clouded by you insisting that there is no permanent R IE: marriage (which she holds highly in regaurd givin her religous beliefs).
So the A definitaly not a black and white sitch and only you can decide how you want to handle all of this.
There are no perfect people in thids world Iv'e learned that cause I always thought my H was. Found out he makes mistakes and has issues just like anyone else. That is why there is a thing called forgiving.
If you haven't read Divorce Remeady please read it. It talks about doing 180's and maybe that would work in your sitch.
Ex: she mentioned your work schedule. Look at that and see what you could do to give yourself more time together.Then look at other areas where you have issues and adjust. When she sees the changes she very well may come around.
In my OP she is not cheating on you right now. But she may be exploring other options for her future, for her to be happy.
JAk
You don't get to choose how you're going to die. Or when, you can only decide how you're going to live now. ~Joan Baez
