Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums We're separated--What Now? Do I buy a house? What about sex?

Very good points. Maybe difficult to implement given the two parties probably haven't been acting like adults for a long time. We don't like to admit it, but each of us has acted immature and childish - that's a big reason why we're here. So, we all kind of need to look at those statements and get to work. Thanks for the insights!

Heh- I wish that it were that simple. We went to a MB weekend and so that meant access to Dr Harley in a forum for attendees.

I had written of our struggle and Harley basically said "We [MB] don't ask the reluctant partner to have faith that it will work, we ask that they DO the work."

He was told multiple times that if he would just *do* the time, he would be shocked at his feelings after a few months.

He even agreed in front of the counselor that he would actually participate in doing the assignments, putting in the 15 hours, etc until the end of the summer.

I was supposed to "force" him to do the homework and not take "no" for an answer. He claimed that he would not hold it against me. (Counselor as a witness.) I did not end up doing this as I found it too damn hard to drag him along. I would suggest that we do it; give options, etc, but he just dug in his heels. I was willing to forgo the specific homework to just get our 15 hours in and he just couldn't muster the energy or attitude to do so.

I don't know specifically what he and his brother talked about, but the impression I get is that his brother somehow was able to get J to admit that he hadn't actually *done* everything he could have. I think the rest of his support network is accepting the idea of not "doing" the work if you don't "feel" like it.

He is trying very hard to convince himself and others that he did "try" for many years; that he stuck it out when he didn't want to (for the kids); and now he just needs to move on. He acknowledges that I have made HUGE changes in the last couple of years, but 'something' is still missing.

I feel it isn't fair because we are at a point in our lives where we could be traveling, having fun, etc. I am a whole new person. We have the 'education' and 'tools' for how to build a great relationship and he just out and out refuses. Says that his refusal obviously indicates that he isn't interested in making our marriage work. We have a "chicken or the egg" conundrum at this point.

Agent99,

Let go of the feeling of unfairness.

Something is unfair when something to which you are entitled is taken from you.

You are not entitled to have H feel and want the things you would like him to feel and want. Love is never an entitlement.

He is trying very hard to convince himself and others that he did "try" for many years;

This may be true.. but "what have you done for [us] lately?" The saying goes, "Marriage is hard work", and the work doesnt stop halfway through the marriage.


that he stuck it out when he didn't want to (for the kids); and now he just needs to move on. He acknowledges that I have made HUGE changes in the last couple of years, but 'something' is still missing.

well, sure something is missing.. THE FUN!
Why? because he sits his sorry butt on the couch and does nothing. (at least, with you)

Look... he promised to do this stuff with you.
Also, he has said, that you SHOULD "stand up to him".

This controlled separation garbage, will most likely be the end of your marriage. its an express-lane to divorce, the way you have it set up.

Your alternative.. is to do exactly what he told you that you should do, and STAND UP to him.

Tell him that before the controlled separation, you want him to keep his promise about doing the 15 hours a week.
For 2 months.

DO NOT accept his "emotional energy" garbage. Get In His Face about it. Every time... every time! he tries to say that, tell him,
'THAT's CRAP! you made a promise, now BE A MAN about it!'

If you really want to push his buttons, you might say,
"Men dont only keep promises 'when they feel like it'. you sound more like a girl than a man, when you say that". But that's "nuke" level... up to you to decide if you really want to go that far...


I don't think everyone should take this approach to their husband, or their troubled marriage but given what he has said to you in the past about standing up to him, and given that he straight-up promised to do it... hold his feet to the fire. Make him do it.
And no compromises on the time. No, "well we sat in the same room together reading our own books last night, so that's 2 hours". Make it real "Undivided attention" time.

And I wont accept any "it's too hard to do that" crap from you about it either

PS: "sticking it out for the kids", is a very very different case than "working on your marriage".

"sticking it out", is just sitting there and suffering.

"working on your marriage", is actively trying to make it better

Betcha he wasnt doing that "for years", at least in the last few.

Eh.. more thoughts... you might even combine the 15 hours, with him moving out.
I wouldnt think it is a good thing... but it would certainly be better than what you have planned, i think.

Telling him to 'man up' would more than likely tick him off royally and prompt more of "quit mothering me." Followed with all the "reasons" he needs to go....He is pretty withdrawn right now- I don't think pushing him would endear him to me.

I do totally agree, though, that he didn't actually "try" while he was sticking it out. I will say that last year I think he was trying (on and off) and we were having a great time. But then the time together would decrease. I have pointed out the correlation as I see it-more time= more love. He sees it as him trying and then the feelings mysteriously disappearing and then the time diminishing. And who knows, maybe that is what happened-I don't know what was in his head.

W/regard to combining the 15 hours UA with him moving--what would that look like? I have already told him that I'm not standing in his way, but I'm not going to "help" him either. That this is totally his decision and he can be the one to do the work.

?? I dont see how that equates with "mothering".
To me, it sounds like a wife pushing her husband to be a better man. I hear that's the traditional role of wifes.. Push for husband improving himself, and push for bettering the relationship. (you know the old, "behind every great man, there is a great woman" thing?)
I'm guessing that your husband actually expects you to fulfil both roles, and you havent been doing so in the past (at least, to the level of his expectations)

You know him best... but that's the second-hand impression I'm getting from what you write about him.






maybe something like,


"we already discussed about a "controlled separation".. but now that i've had more time to think about it, I'm not happy with what we came up with.

I want you to keep your promise, about doing 15 hours of "undivided attention" a week together. There are 98 waking hours in a week. 50 of them are "work+ travel". Add 15 hours in there for "us", and that still leaves 33 hours a week that you would have free to do whatever you wanted with.

I dont want you to move out; I'd prefer you to stay with us. It's up to you. But whether you choose to still move our, or stay, I want you to keep your promise of 15 hours a week, at least for (the length of time in the proposed separation)"


Note: I think that the 15 hours a week should NOT be contingent on the separation; i think it needs to be started right away, not "when separation starts". nor should it end, if he decides to avoid, or stop early, the separation!
Its not "a condition of separation": after all, you cant stop him from moving out! you cant make conditions on that. But point out to him that if he was willing to try separation for X amount of time, it's only right that he be willing to "try out" this, for a similar length of time.


It doesnt sound like he has responded well in the past with you "offering options", and being equal. Whereas he has responded to you being somewhat pushy. I think you need to try to remember "what has worked", and take that kind of attitude in presenting this to him. At minimum, sounds like you must be firm, and strong, with him. If you are tentative with him, he will ignore you as weak and not worth paying attention to, seems like. Just a guess.




PS: about the "feelings disappearing"... yeah.. I've read that this happens. The time does not maintain feelings at tip-top, 100% of the time. but lets face it.. no-one feels 100% perfect, 100% of the time. The thing is.. it does keep them coming back, I hear.


Reguarding WHAT you would actually do during those hours.. rather than try to bargain/offer ahead of time, "what about X?" "no i dont like that" "what about Y?" "no i dont like that", (which will never end), I might suggest an agreement of,

"For the 15 hours, if there is anything that you want to suggest that sounds appealing to you, we'll do it. If there is nothing that you want to suggest that sounds appealing to you, then we will go with what I think will be enjoyable for both of us. You get first pick, but otherwise, to avoid ending up doing nothing, I get final pick. "

Thanks for the reply Dom.
I know what you are saying-totally. I just don't feel I have the leverage to get the desired result.

The way he phrased it "Some women say "You better quit doing XYZ or you don't get to be with me"" makes me think that if I say "Okay, buddy, you better do the 15 hours you agreed to or you don't get to be with me", he would say "I don't want to be with you-that's why I am moving out."
KWIM?

"Okay, buddy, you better do the 15 hours you agreed to or you don't get to be with me", he would say "I don't want to be with you-that's why I am moving out."

And, so what? How does that change where your boundary should be?