Karen1, some one on the NG forum wrote "top my bottom," which I read as the guy was in control of the sex by making his W initiate 99% of the time.
Don't know it that describes Mr. K1 or not. Maybe a small part?
Interesting. I remember once reading a novel in which the male protagonist was a very successful man who after encountering sexual rejection a few times early on in his life decided that he would consider himself a sexual "success" when he was so successful and "manly" otherwise that he wouldn't have to try to seduce women because they would just jump his bones because he was so attractive. Since he saw women as generally having the upper hand sexually, he would be in some sense more on top by being chased/treated like a bottom. Kind of fascinating ( to me anyways - lol ) to compare/contrast that POV with the one Stu and others have brought up which is that having a woman actively pursue him made him feel low drive/unmanly/like a prisoner being molested. So really both problems with narrow bandwidth just at different ends of the spectrum. One of the things that made me nuts about my 2bx was that he would flip-flop on this issue. Sometimes I was too assertive and sometimes I wasn't assertive enough. Kind of like how sometimes I was too fat and sometimes my boobs were too small because I lost weight - lol .
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I was too fat and sometimes my boobs were too small because I lost weight (not about Mojo) Too fat, I can visualize that. Boobs too small because someonr lost weight? Not a problem. That is the way the cookie looks after weight loss.
both problems with narrow bandwidth And there lies one of the problems.
I got to thinking about it because there was some guy crying about not getting any from his breastfeeding wife and I wondered if H were writing about our SL what he would say. The guy on the forum was actively turned down (unheard of in our house) but I suppose that my H could say,
I found that your describing the posters message as some guy crying about not "getting any" kind of insulting.
While being turned down never happens to your husband I would expect that someone in your position would have a bit more sympathy for another who is trying to get their own sexual needs met in a healthy way.
I took a gander through the NMMNG forums, and I think you might get a lot from the discussions. I think many of the frustrated HD males might get a lot from those forums. If you haven't yet, take a peek.
The book is "No More Mr. Nice Guy," and yes, it goes into detail on how to become an 'integrated male.' Quite honestly, it sounds a lot like the stuff Blackfoot has talked about, but with real exercises, etc., that you actually put into practice.
THe last time my wife initiated any contact of any sort was to concieve my last child 12 years ago. Women like yourself are an absolute dream for guys in my boat. I know you ladies are out there, but you are vastly outnumbered by the LD women.
Hey Cemar, I thought we were having an interesting conversation on the last thread. Would you like to pick it back up? Here is your last post to me and mine back to you. TO BE CLEAR, my point about stereotypes is not to argue whether or how true they are. The point is to say it does not matter if a stereotype is true for 1% or 99% of men if it is NOT true for you. Also I added some information about people I know who are not cuddlers/touchers.
Quote:
fearless:
1) Are BOTH men's and women's needs equally important in a relationship? Yes. This is the BIGGEST problem. Most people (and they may not relalize it) actually elevate the women's needs above the man's, or they dismiss the male needs all together. The biggest hurdle us guys have to face is this general preception among women that THEIR needs are the REAL needs of marriage, sex is a minor thing. Also, to be equally important means that they must be unconditionally met. As soon as you set conditions, you have ELEVATED one persons needs above the other. 2) For a marriage to be on solid ground BOTH partners need to be getting their needs met and meeting the others needs? After thinking about this, I would say no. Heck the majority of people that stay married for life are in this boat. Perfect example would be my wifes parents, they clearly don't meet each others needs, but they will never divorce. So their marriage is solid (its not going to end), but their is not much good about it. In fact, if PM is right, MOST couples that stay married for life are in this boat, only the people that HAVE PM's get beyond having a crappy marriage. 3) Do you believe that these needs need to be completely and fully met for each other at ALL times? Of course not, why would anyone think this. Much of the time, yes. Showing good effort to TRY and meet needs, yes. 4) Do you know what your wife's communication needs are? If so, how do you know her needs – did she tell you or have you assumed? We have talked aobut it. She likes to talk, as long as it is not romantic or physical in any way. But at the same time, she does NOT want to be too close, she thinks that is weird for couples to be best friends. So she likes to talk, but she has a highly restrictive comfort zone as to HOW intimate that talk can be (she has been this way all along). She even commented one time that she likes me IN the room with her, like to watch TV, but she does not like to be close to me. Physical closeness makes her uncomfortable.
(To be clear I do not view men and women like this) I apologize if I missed that. So how do you view men? I see myself as completely normal, I have read the books and how they describe male needs and I pretty much FIT them. So what is the real male, and what does he need from marriage?
Thanks for the thoughtful reply and directness of your answers! (To be clear I do not view men and women like this) I apologize if I missed that. So how do you view men? I see myself as completely normal, I have read the books and how they describe male needs and I pretty much FIT them. So what is the real male, and what does he need from marriage?
No apology needed for me. I was just concerned that you may miss what people are saying to you because of assumptions you make. This is about trying to help you communicate better.
As far as the "real" male (or "real" female for that matter), I try not to generalize too much because it seems like there are exceptions everywhere and it's better to understand the individual. IN MY OPINION I really don't care what the stereotypes are for men and women or whether they are true for the majority. The fact is for you it IS important for a feeling of desire. The main issue I am curious about for you is to make sure that wanting of desire for your wife is simply THAT and not a way of getting SELF VALIDATION.
1) It's interesting that you feel that getting a man's needs seen as real is an issue because I can tell you from watching MANY marriages up close that it is just as common for a man's needs to be elevated. REGARDLESS of that, let's stick with your marriage.
You do FEEL your wife's needs have a higher elevation than your own, right? Has your wife explicitly stated that her needs for more important than yours? Does she feel like her needs are met by you? Have you asked her directly if she believes her needs are more important that yours?
(By the way an interesting article Raven sent me from MSN has married couples telling the secret to good marriages. One man married happily for 42 years said that he and his wife were told when they got married that EACH should give 60% and take 40%.
2) Okay...
3) Of course not, why would anyone think this. Well I had to ask because when you write I feel an intensity of neediness from you that is overwhelming at times. That may or may not be true in real life but I think you deserve to know the impression that you give off with your writing. Glad to know you do not expect constant meeting of needs. Does it surprise you to know that I get the impression that you do want your needs met constantly? Is it possible your wife gets that impression?
4) So are you able to give her the communication she needs? Has she expressed that she feels she gets what she needs from you?
Also I personally know a man and woman who are not cuddlers/physical touch people. The man is the husband of a friend of mine and she is okay with it. I know she would appreciate more cuddling but physical touch is not a LL for her. What is funny is that her toddler son has been the exact same way since he was a baby. Didn't like to be held or cuddled!! So she is so happy her newest baby is more of a cuddler:)
And one of my best friends is a woman who does not like constant cuddling and touching. She has no hang-ups with sex and enjoys it although she is a single woman again (by her choice!). In her 4 year long distance relationship with her boyfriend she would complain that he could be so touchy feely that it was irritating to her. She would be just fine sitting in a room separately from him talking/watching TV.
I only list these examples to show that some "normal" people (without sexual abuse or physical abuse issues) just may not like touching as much as others. That does not mean that your wife does not have other underlying issues. I just mean that,without ANY other evidence than she does not like to touch all the time and does not initiate sex, I wouldn't automatically assume there has been abuse in her life. There may have been but I think you'll need to search further.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
Tell us about your wife's issues that cause her to be uncomfortable with intimacy. Was there sexual abuse in her past? IMO, if you and she don't deal with this, then you will be on this board 5 years from now, doing the same whining and moping and nothing will have changed. You can run but you can't hide from it.
Sorry if that didn't sound quite right on this forum. Actually, I have often referred to myself as "crying because I'm not getting any". It is really a toungue in cheek kind of reference. The guy in question really does have my sympathy but he did acknowledge that they had been doing well sexually prior to the birth and the breast feeding so ...... hopefully the W's disinterest was just a blip on the radar screen of life. As far as the "healthy way" well, the guy had a way to go on that part. The gentleman's post struck a nerve because I am breastfeeding and I'm not getting any either.
Lou,
I have wondered that myself but like MJ's ex - mine seems to flip flop. If I am too "topish" he has gotten turned off in the past. However, he does seem to rely on my being the sex police for the marriage, intiating regularly, etc...
Guess I need to start a thread of my own again.........
Sexual abuse can impact the capability for intimacy, however a breakdown or lack of intimacy in a marriage is not primarily an indication of sexual abuse, IMO. Although from my reading of forums over the years, that is often the first one that is proffered as the most likely reason by the spouse who is seeking a solution. Sometimes it is mundane things that create the gap.
In running a search for "problems with intimacy", I found this Overview of Intimacy
At the bottom of the page there is a list:
Barriers to Resolving Sexual Problems
Barrier 1: Lack of real or perceived commitment
Barrier 2: Trying to control emotion
Barrier 3: Fear of failure
Barrier 4: Attaching undue meaning to sexual activity or performance
Barrier 5: Missing ingredient(s) in the relationship
Barrier 6: Basing your security or happiness on your spouse
Barrier 7: Too busy, too tired, or just not interested in physical intimacy
Each item is a link that has additional information with descriptions and suggestions of things to try.
Unmasking of yourself in order to make yourself vulnerable in a trusting, loving, secure relationship.
Sense that you have a special, unique, and distinct bond joining you and another person.
Sense of closeness, proximity, and being ``in tight.''
Sense of oneness, unity, and uniqueness.
Sense of being exposed, undefended, and fragile.
Sharing of tenderness, caring, and affection.
Sharing of secrets, hidden tales, and private thoughts.
Free will offering and receiving of each others' generosity, giving and sharing.
Sense of being in a non-punitive, non-abusive and non-coercive environment.
Mutual respect, recognition, and approval of each other's need to be a sexual being. In a marital relationship this shared sexuality ultimately results in loving sexual intercourse.
