Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums THE SEX-STARVED MARRIAGE Moving into SSM, Hopefully not for long

This sparked something H and I were watching on TV the other night. The question was "have you ever wished you were a member of the opposite sex?"

I sure know I have wished that oodles of times. But when I asked my H he said "never, not even once".

As a young girl I remember thinking how unfair life was and how I wished I was a boy. To be able to have the freedom that my mother seemed to allow the boys in the family and not the girls. After all, we couldn't take care of ourselves if something was to happen, right?

Quite often my H would use the saying "it's a man's world" and I would respond by saying "don't I know it, I've been living in it long enough". As much as society has come a long, long way since I was a kid, women are still reminded every day of our lives how much of a "weaker" sex we really are - some good, some not so good.

Heywire,

That's just it. This strange perception that it is a man's world. On the surface it would seem so but I disagree.

I see women as a weaker sex only when they try to compete in a man's world against men. And then not always, look at BJ.

But in a woman's world they blow us away. Women can do things in their world men could never achieve or understand.

My grandmaster always used to say "Don't box a boxer, don't wrestle a wrestler". It's a common thing to do. I've seen highly skilled martial artists fight someone from another discipline and all of a sudden they throw away all of their skills and try to mimic the fighting style of the other person. It's absolutely ridiculous but I see it all the time. Especially in the cage fighting thing which has gotten so big.

I think there is a parallel here. Women have tremendous strength and power if they just be women. God did not intend for us to be the same or he would have made us the same.


Xue

Xue,
As much as I wanted to save my marriage the fear of exposing myself even to my wife, like the books told me, was the one thing I knew I could never do.

So have you started "exposing" yourself and your fears to your wife? MJ had a great post about how to tell if you are being vulnerable or weak. Vulnerability is more of a feeling of fear and how am I going to do this or take care of this while weakness is fear and how is someone else going to take care of me.

Corri's quote about not feeling safe as a woman is interesting. Could you bring that quote up with your wife and see what she thinks of such a statement?

To continue with Heywyre's comments, I don't ever remember wishing I was a boy. I was kind of a tomboy but yet I still liked being a girl. I work as an engineer in male dominated settings and while I am sure there are some downsides, there are not enough to make me wish to be a man. I am happy as a woman. I know there are assets I bring to situations because I am a woman.

Women have tremendous strength and power if they just be women.

I sort of agree but the difficulty is how to define "just be women." There can be a wide range of how women act, can't there?

Also that same argument has been used in the past to prevent women from doing things. Women were not allowed to run marathons because they didn't think women could "handle" it. Turns out the longer the "race" the more competitive men and women are. In 100+ miles races women can beat men as the OVERALL winner - see Pam Reed in the Badwater and others.

God did not intend for us to be the same or he would have made us the same.

There are wide ranges even within the sexes and there is a lot of overlap too.

I am not all that stereotypically "feminine" but I do like being a woman. Also I am good at math and science. Should I not have pursued those interests because they are not "women" subjects or interests? Wouldn't that have been denying who I am? And just because I like math and science, why should that make me any less of a woman?

For me the bigger issue with women like your wife is that potentially she is actually denying her womanliness because she sees that as the issue rather than seeing it's her fear of her womanliness that might be the issue.

I'm not sure if that makes sense but I think it's any interesting subject.

I agree - but trust me, not all men think like you do (nor do women). I happen to be one of the lucky women in the world that has a H that thinks there should be more women in power and he prefers to deal with them in business situations. I don't know if that is just a woman/man thing - personally I think a lot of women can be real bitches because they are insecure and trying to prove something (mostly to themselves)

I agree that we each have our own "powers" that we need to learn how to utilize and, quite frankly, I like being a woman and I like being treated like one (i.e. as the "weaker" sex). There is nothing more of a turn-on for me than going out for an evening and having doors opened for me, chairs pulled out, help with taking off and on of my coat - I absolutely LOVE IT!!

But, I don't get it all that often because my H was mainly attracted to me because of my "mind" (his words, not mine) and my independence - *sigh*

Fearless,

Love your post. And agree totally.

Throughout different conversations on this board the question has been asked. How to define womanly traits versus manly traits. I don't think anyone has actually done it to any degree of success.

It is interesting that you are an engineer. I majored in engineering physics in college. In the series of physics classes I took I only remember one female. She was not what you would expect to see in the classes and I still don't know why she was there as I'm sure it wasn't her major. I helped her through those classes. The stereotype held in my experience. But then on the other hand I was an anomaly also being one of two Caucasians. So I guess Asian men are smarter huh :-)

But I think you hit on a big one.





I think we have all been looking at what is not womanly instead of what is. Can I define it? No. Not my area of expertise and I have a hard enough time making sure I am being manly.

So your good at math and does that make you any less of a woman. Hell no, big turn on in my book.

I'll address the rest later, there is much here for discussion.

Xue

Hey Xue, I found you! Sneaky...moving over here eh? Making the girls chase you around I see. Nice place to visit but you wouldn't want to live here, am I right?

I've read bits and pieces of your history before but ZOINKS! I had no idea it was so very full of mystery, intrigue and danger.

I have absolutely no marriage advice for you at all--just well wishes and god speed to you! Me, I have let go--not completely of course, but I'm working on it.

But I do have advice...your story is so incredible I'm thinkin' howz about you and the wife write a screen play? I imagine you as Clive Owens or Viggo Mortensen (hey a girl can dream, right) and your wife is played by Uma Thurman (she kicks good ass). The villain would be Tommy Lee Jones. I'd go see it in a heart beat!

Good luck Xue!
Althea

Hey Althea,

So glad you found me. Good to hear from you.

Yes I think a screenplay is a great idea. We had talked about it in the past but the truth is that we were both very emotionally damaged from it. We have a totally different perspective on it now so yes it might be the right time.

And yes you are right. I really don't want to stay here long.

Things are progressing. No sex yet but there are changes.

Even today we made another little step. My wife normally intercepts my mother's blows at me. I've known this for some time and we've talked about it. However over the weekend W was gone and had a major realization of how nasty my mother really is and how terrible it must be for my wife to deal with this. In dealing with it I also recognized the trait in myself. I've known for some time that I would anger and lash out. I've worked extensively on controlling it and have had great success. However all of a sudden I really understand it. Just knew it existed before but now I get it. And by getting it I'm positive I can delete it from my personality.

I discussed this with my wife today.

Later my mom called. W had been shielding me all day but gave the phone to me and said I might as well deal with it. I did and stated very matter of factly to my mother where she errored.

I do believe my wife was quite happy. She said "good, she needed to be told"


Could it be that my mother's interference is what's keeping our marriage from finishing it's healing? I think I can answer that.

The strange thing is that I wasn't much affected by the call. It used to really get to me emotionally which is probably why my wife shielded me. But not much at all this time. Pretty detached actually. Not sure what caused that but it's definely a very good thing.

On another note:

Last Friday we put on a business mixer. It turned into quite the party and as is usually the case during these things is when my wife becomes affectionate towards me. It is the only time. She loves to brag about me and she'll pay a lot of attention to me. Touches me a lot. Very different than the rest of the time.

So afterwards I decide to make a move. She's a little drunk and this has proved in the past to not be the time. But the night had been affectionate so I persist anyway.

I sit on the couch next to her and I'm obvious about what I'm doing. So I put my hand on her leg. She does not move away but there's a little uneasyness. We continue to talk. But here's the thing. It caused what I can only describe as a panic attack in me. I really felt like I was going to have a heart attack. However I persisted. I kept my hand there and continued to talk. It was really scary but I pushed through. I didn't really expect that kind of reaction in my own body.

So I didn't actually die.

I do think that pushing through it has had some transformative effect in myself. Maybe in her too. Not sure where that takes me but wanted to post it.

Xue

Could it be that my mother's interference is what's keeping our marriage from finishing it's healing?

I would phrase it as YOUR allowing/"forcing" your wife to shield you from your mother could be an issue. Of course your wife has chosen to shield you and that is/was her choice also.

So now you are stepping up to the plate and dealing with your mom which will have 2 affects. One is that you feel more confident because you are handling your own issues and the second is that your wife gets to let go of a duty she "improperly" took on which is a relief for her.

It sounds like you have done some great work on yourself if handling your mom turned out to not feel so difficult!!

This may or may not be a relief to her, because it does not sound to me like she made that choice consciously, until Xue could find his own strength to handle the problem himself.

So there was some need on her part to rescue and protect. And if that role is removed... it will cause a hole in her identity. She will seek to fill it. If she is doing all the unconsciously, she will fill it any way she can... and that may include negative ways.



Hm. I struggled with the whole 'rejection of the feminine' myself, for a very long time. And boy howdy, did I struggle against it.

I'll try to put my experience to words, for there is an incredible difference between women who embrace their feminine and those who reject it. And just because you accept it does not make you weak, nor does it mean you cannot hold positions of 'power' that have traditionally been viewed as masculine.

Corri

This may or may not be a relief to her, because it does not sound to me like she made that choice consciously, until Xue could find his own strength to handle the problem himself.

So there was some need on her part to rescue and protect. And if that role is removed... it will cause a hole in her identity. She will seek to fill it. If she is doing all the unconsciously, she will fill it any way she can... and that may include negative ways.

This is absolutely a possibility. I was guessing it might be a relief for her due to Xue's description of their issues. But you are absolutely right to not assume that it will be a relief. Or even if it is a relief sometimes, that doesn't mean that she will feel okay about it all the time. So I should have said "might" be a relief for her.

I'll be interested to hear how you look at the feminine and how to accept it. I've never struggled with accepting it although being an engineer and growing up as a tomboy people may not initially realize that I am very comfortable as a woman.