Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Piecing Our Marriage Back Together Again NikkiB #17

Nikki, I don't have much advice other than empathy for you. A bit similar to your situation, my h is recommitted, but cannot let go of OW. We JUST moved far away from where OW is, (he said this is a milestone). I am not sure the amount of contact with OW, he knows I do not like him contacting OW, but he is doing it anyway. I do not know your whole sitch, but in my case, "care" is correct that my h has a "valid" reason to not completely cut off contact. I hate it but I know I am starting to see it from his side and trying my best to wait it out (and praying and hoping, the whole lots). I could have written your post in terms of h's saying sorry and "trying", and how you would say you want him to be happy too. My h and I could have almost the same conversation.
Sorry, not much advice here, just empathy. Is h showing progress towards cutting contact with OW? May be you need to give him more time? I am not sure. Or is h still doing a flip flop kind of behavior?
OT, I am also interested in listening to your boundary setting idea. Like Nikki, it appears h is trying, but cutting off contact with OW seems to be an impossible task for them. So it appears both Nikki and I are stuck (well, I feel stuck).

Thanks so much everyone. Had a quick good cry this morning just to get it out, and now I am determined to make this a great day!! It's my first day of vacation and I'm sure as heck not going to waste it being down. I'm mostly just catching up on chores and stuff, but will take a little time to go to the park or something too - something fun.

Still supposed to go racing with H this weekend and still planning to go but it'll depend on how I feel later today. There are a bunch of good friends going too so I'd really like to go, and it's always a great time for H and I to connect a bit too... we'll see.

Monday and Tuesday I'll find something fun to do just for me.

All of you made some great points last night/this morning - thank you so much. And thanks for the hugs too, they help so much. I wanted to reply to you individually. Long post warning...

JDK
Thanks. I did relax and calm down, and managed to even get some sleep, so that was good. You're right, a lot of what he said after was positive. I wish it didn't sound so much like the time frame between the bomb and him moving out (all the "I'm sorry I'm hurting you" happened then, too). but I really do need to stop letting the past year influence my reactions TODAY so much. I was proud of myself for telling him all that too. Like OT said I apologize too much - but it's a massive improvement for me to say all that stuff at all, so I'm getting there. thanks for the hugs.

Dave
Yeah, tough one for sure. I totally agree that he shouldn't be hanging out with her. The huge problem, I think, is that they work together.. and not just "in the same place" kind of thing, but she's in parts and he's a mechanic so they have to interact all day long. Even when he does pull away from her he talks to her all day every day at work - seems like over and over it's only a matter of time before he gets sucked right back in.

Care
You sure have that right, there is something he can't let go of and I don't know what it is. Congrats on your H verbally recommitting, that is great!! I need to catch up on you soon (I usually follow your thread too but don't post a lot). I think he not only can't let go of it but he feels, as you say, like it's somehow wrong of me to ask him to. I'm glad I finally have that self respect piece that was missing all last year - it allows me to see that no, it IS destructive, and it IS ok for me to be "not ok" with it. I really wish I had a better idea what his LL is. I keep thinking I AM doing that, showing him love etc., only to have it all blown out of the water by him telling me he's only doing things to try to make me happy. It makes it sound like any good times we have are just because he's doing it "for me" and he's not enjoying anything at all.. I know logically that probably isn't true, but it feels that way sometimes.

Keep swimming.. I like it!!

Oldtimer
Thanks - I'm getting there on the standing up for myself. A ways to go still, for sure, but I'm getting better. I totally agree that the "people who were part of your life" thing is straight from her. Good point that it's probably how she guilted him into meeting the new guy, too. I thought it was weird how he kept going on about what a great guy this was. My guess (who knows if it's right, but my guess) is that he was trying to help me feel better about the whole thing because he's obviously not "involved" with her if he's there with her boyfriend right?? He did that a lot last year. He never did understand why I didn't feel better about the whole situation after he told me she had a boyfriend. Um yeah.. she's married, she's dating another mechanic (also married) in the shop, and that's supposed to make me feel BETTER? Because what, she'll cheat on her H but not her married boyfriend...??? The logic just boggles my mind. Anyway... enough on that.

Thanks for your words about the "making you happy" thing being crap. I didn't recognize it at the time but that thought came into my head this morning, and it was great to read that you saw it that way too. It's not as extreme obviously but it's like the guy that beats his wife then buys her jewelry.. the "good" doesn't excuse the bad.

About boundaries - I guess I truly don't understand the boundary thing at all. Because the boundary that I want IS controlling him in a way - or rather wanting him to change what he's doing. The REASON for it is not just to control him (I do finally get the distinction there between controlling him vs. what I really need)... but it really is about his actions or inactions. It obviously doesn't matter if I "accept" it or not because it's going on anyway. I'm not ok with it.. I'm not GOING to be ok with it. NO I don't accept the friendship, but I have no idea what to DO about it.

I do want to go back to MC. I wasn't going to bring it up again unless H did, but I've decided to just schedule it and will tell him when it is. Up to him if he wants to go. I want to talk to her either way and get some ideas. We have a solution based MC who we saw last year and we both like and respect, so maybe she can help. I think I really do need a third party to help me there. OT I think you'd like her a lot. In my solo session with her I mentioned that I was upset because I had gotten really angry at H earlier that week and she said, I kid you not, "Why are you upset about that? He was being an a$$, you had every right to be angry and I'm glad you let him see it." She doesn't let me apologize or minimize my feelings, reminds me of you.

I have no idea how to make it healthy either. What I've been doing - focusing on me more, expressing my feelings more, working on my PMA again, have all been helping but it's not enough, for sure.

Donna
Thank you! Too bad your PW won't move. Hm. Maybe she can get a new job out here in CA and the PW in my sitch can move in across the street from you... . Two birds with one stone...

Yeah, I do know that it's basically a symptom. Although in this case where we're at now, I think it's a little different. Last year I really saw it that way, a symptom that I was blind to for a long time. But now, when he had decided to come back and things were going great - then all of a sudden about a month ago the social contact with her restarted again and suddenly he's unhappy again. I dunno, it just seems like there is something more going on, some kind of "pull" that she has that I don't understand.

I've done a lot of thinking about what he was drawn to in her - self confidence, taking lots of care with her appearance, PMA most of the time, more adventurous, those kinds of things and have definitely done a lot of that myself (not just for H, for me, too, but that's how I started looking for positive changes to make post-bomb). What he's getting out of it now that he's not getting from me? I really don't know. Maybe like Care said, he's getting an "escape route" and that's it. Kind of the keeping the suitcase packed... he knows she's always there to encourage him to leave and tell him he's doing the right thing.

Or maybe he's attracted to all the drama that swirls around her - and frankly I'm not interested in creating or living with all that drama, so if that's really ultmately what he wants he's gonna have to find it elsewhere (without me). But I don't really think that's true, because I see it in his whole demeanor that he's happier when he's away from it.

Hangin' on... thank you.

Ourcrisis
Thanks, empathy always helps too. I haven't caught up on you in awhile either - I'm sorry! I am glad you guys moved, one more step away from her, hopefully. As for me - he had cut off non-work contact for quite awhile (I think almost 2 months), but now he is flip flopping. It feels almost like a test, or a rebellious thing, or an addiction he can't break, or... who knows. But yeah, it's definitely a very stuck feeling.

Whew... long post.. but thank you again everyone.

I used to be really good about reading other sitches in Newcomers, need to get around here more too as I bet I'd learn a lot, and be able to offer some support. I'll go catch up on all of you now though.

Yes, your sitch and Donna's sitch are entirely different. But, they are the same in that you both need to figure out your boundary with respect to PW.

Donna has decided to ignore H's contact with PW, it is none of her business for now, she has let go of the M, and will reevaluate at some point. Presumably there are limits to this -- PW coming over the house for sex, or something.

Ignoring H's contact with PW is obviously not working for you. You are working on your M, H is back home, you are piecing. You have told H you are not OK with his contact with PW, though you waffle on this. You keep waiting for him to change his behavior to prove his love to you or something. Figure out what you want and what you will change about what YOU are doing if it doesn't happen.

"H, I need straightforward, simple, direct communcation with respect to your contact with OW. If I want the details, I'll ask. Otherwise, I simply need to know about the form and frequency of the contact so that I can make informed choices."

Then decide what you will do. Quit trying to control him. Instead control yourself by putting yourself in a place where you are not abusing yourself by tolerating contact you are uncomfortable with while piecing.

Who knows what this is? It could simply be putting any further efforts to repair the M on hold until it stops. Maybe it is moving into another room, or some other form of separation. It is really up to you. Only you can figure out your own boundaries here.

Me? I'd go for friends only in-house separation followed by a real separation pretty quickly. I'd want to see a plan for him getting a new job and stopping contact before I'd continue to piece. But, that is *me* not you.

Maybe get a book on Boundaries?

Nikki,
Just one short comment. My h also mentioned before that the "pull" from OW was much stronger than he expected. He did not understand it either.

I think what OT is saying, you just really need to know what your going to do if your boundaries are broken. However, what do you do when you don't know about it, or he's lying or doing it behind your back. That's when I think that you need to think of him as in the middle of the sitch again and continue working on yourself and just be under the assumption that he is not M to you right now.

I think that any ultimatums will put him out the door again. Only because she works with him and because they "supposedly" didn't do anything and he's going to take it as major pressure. Even though you are totally right and he is totally wrong.

These are the times that I wish my H would talk to me openly about our sitch. He could help so much. I'm still gonna try to ask him some questions though..I'm sure he'll just say "I can't remember, blah blah", but it's worth a try.

Maybe you should just straight ask what happened a month ago.

You could also share with H that you feel as though you are living in the dark again and you are done trying to figure everything out. Tell him, I really was looking forward to bringing our R closer, but obviously we are still not on the same page, so for now, I am putting our M on hold until we both decide working on the M is what we BOTH want to do. I do not need you to make me happy, and what I want is for you to figure out how to make yourself happy. Only You can do this, not me, not OW, not anyone but yourself.

I'm not sure about sayin the "happy" part.

I'm so sorry you had such a rough night. Sometimes you just have to let things out. You obviously are very distraught over all this, and you need to do something different for yourself. I think it would be really good for to go to IC. If he wants to come, great, if not, that's okay.

Just think. you guys almost made it once, you can do it again. He just has way more struggles to get past than we thought.


Hey, here's a 180 for you.... Go up to his work and get in OW face and tell her your boundaries yourself. not sure it would do any good, but it would definitely show your standing up for yourself!

(((Nikki))),

Sorry I haven't posted lately -- been gone but am now back catching up on everyone.

Sounds like a lot of confusion that you (and likely H) are going through, and I sympathize with you on the frustration that comes along with it. The boundary sitch is tough too, but I think OT makes a pretty good point about what may be necessary. It is all the more difficult when all you want is to be w/ H and make your M a healthy one. When this is the case, it is nearly unbearable to imagine separating or going back to just friends until the contact w/ PW is completely halted. Is this a boundary you're willing to make? I think it's a pretty good one because it doesn't control H, it is about you. Also, it will give you a good idea about where H is in his committment to the M. Are you willing to go to these measures to find out? It is a scary place to be for sure, but it may be that or living with the current sitch indefinitely. What is best for you? It is extremely tough, and I just want you to know you're cared about here for being such a great person that is in such a difficult position.

I do like ST's suggestion to go to PW and set the boundary with her, but this could be dangerous waters to tread in because it may put H in an uncomfortable position. If you could somehow do it without anyone being around (just you and PW), that might work. I like the thought of seeing her squirm... ;).

Great job on letting H know how you're feeling. Stay strong, GAL, be confident, and take on that suggestion of trying to fill the void that H may be getting filling by PW. Have you figured out or thought about what that could be?

GD

What is the point of going to PW other than to try to control her?

Boundaries are about setting limits on what you allow to transpire in your life, not about controlling other people.

Nikki

As hard as it seems OT is on the money here.
In reality if you are not happy about H interacting with OW then its for you to do what is needed.
Myself , my W works with OM as well but we are far from piecing and so for now its not an issue. could be a big one later on though if we ever get to where you are at.

Dave

Nikki I wanted to stop by and offer my support and hugs. You are going through some tough things right now. I hope the vacation does you and your PMA some good.

I mentioned the "get in OW face" partly for humor. Ultimately it probably would not do any good, but it was a fun thought.

And even if she did do it, it doesn't have to be in the purpose of trying to control OW, but to let OW know what stance she is taking. For instance, "OW, I have dealt with your interference for a long time. I want you to know that I continue to stand for my M. Your R with my H is not a part of our M and I will not be threatened by it....And if you keep trying to take my man, I'm gonna knock you out with the 2x4 my friends on DB loaned me!! haha. okay, just kidding.

OW is a very manipulative piece of dirt. I hope that one day she can come out of her empty shell and repent for all that she's done and may do and become the person God made her to be. She obviously has no character. H will eventually see this, and eventually her pull on him will dissipate, it's just how long will that take.

Like someone mentioned, I remember Michelle writing about finding out why H is attracted to OW. Not sure how easily you can find this info out. That would be helpful, but trying to guess probably won't get you very far. So, just keep GALing and doing what you know you need to do. We will definitely all keep supporting you!