Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Piecing Our Marriage Back Together Again Bombs keep dropping - not meant to be??

IP,
Please understand I'm not being a a## to you. I only recently came to understand this pattern in myself. I believe you are looking at his actions or lack thereof, and thinking, wait a second, this is what I would do, why can't he do it? It's the decent thing to do, this means he doesn't care/love/think I matter.

I'm not 100% sure that is what is going on mentally but for me, when I express the same things you are expressing here, that is my thought process. My counselor worked on this with me about a year ago and like every man on the planet, it didn't sink in until a year later when I was reading a book Sven recommended. I had an AHA! moment. That is what my C was talking about!

Anyhoo. It's self-inflicted pain based on our expectations. As soon as I can drop those, and just accept that whatever my W does, is what she does. And that will probably never be totally congruent with what I would do, the faster I will be out of pain and into a position of power. I can then begin to take control of my responses. In other words, I let her know, via text, letter, VM or whatever. Now the ball is totally in her court. She knows. Her response or lack of, is on her. Maybe no response is her response? This is part of my GAL action plan, (that sounds so manly). I will unconditionally accept her as is. This includes these types of things.

I don't know if that makes sense. I'm running out for lunch but wanted to at least introduce this thought into the discussion.

Ooooo-kay.... IP, I want you to breathe ... in for 4 counts, out for 4 counts... breathe deeply.

i can understand 100% being angry - heck! **I** am angry with your H and I don't even know him!!!

But this is getting you nowhere, it's persuit and it's pushing. You said it yourself - you are scared and in panic mode - when in these states it's best to take no action. You need to do what you need to calm down first.

OK, it's a downer. it's not the end though - I went through a few of these bumps before I got "there" and as Rob1231 said to me I shouldn't make the mistake of thinking one downer is the end of it all. This letter has stirred up a hornets nest, but your H probably feels blamed right now, that he cannot do or say anything right. Not ideal, but no-one ever got anywhere with arguing over who was right or wrong.

So - time out. It's the weekend, I would suggest a 180 from recent actions, a backing off, a cooling off time. This is going to be hard on you, yes but it's time for Patience to step in again. Your H has issues he needs to deal with (conflict avoidence being a biggie) but obviously he's not ready to deal with those right now. It looks like you've backslid - but backsliding isn't failure. Stopping trying is failure. So superhuman effort to back off is required here, methinks.

I'm about tonight if you need me - please please please email me on jenjamhelp@yahoo.co.uk and I'll mail you back my mobile. I have loads of free minutes, I can call you back. Offer is there if you want it, if you need to be talked off the panic ledge. I'l check my email in about an hour, then again in the morning. I'll be out and about Sat morning and able to talk, after that in Brighton for the day, and free again Sunday. Only if you want to of course, otherwise post here and I'll respond.

Take care of yourself - you CAN get through thsi backslide, I KNOW you can and it will be soooooo worth it.

Dear IP,

am catching up to your sitch so I am sorry if I'm off with my words, but from the little I've read so far, I am wondering if you have the DB books. In them, you'll see that constant questions and requests for reassurance (Do you love me?) almost never helps and almost always hurts the R. Makes them so uncomfortable and you don't want that.

Can you take a break with him and watch some comedies, or guy flicks that he likes so he can feel "safe" around you? Meaning that he can experience some conflict free time with you, some "no pressure" moments with you...then you can build on them.
Sounds like you both need to be in touch with why you loved each other in the first place. Dancing, camping, fishing, hobbies or classes together, friends in common? Anything that helps remind you guys that you actually do have a life together, without hitting him over the head with it. Reminding him of how great you were/are as a couple is another form of pressure. Imho, you need to give him a lot more space. If you want him back, you gotta keep the road home paved and smooth, and guilt doesn't help. This is tough, b/c in our hearts and minds, they should feel guilty. Just saying, it does not help US.
Make sense?
j-

Jen Jam Hi

I'm sorry have only just seen your extremely kind post offering to call me, thank you so much you are a truly lovely friend.

I have been in a dark place all weekend and have not even felt like checking on here. I haven't felt like doing anything except laying on my bed staring into space in shock. I think shock is the best way of describing what I am going through right now. I can't stop my head reciting every single word of that letter and I can see her sheepish face as she stood there in MY kitchen just a few days after writing it - no wonder she couldn't look me in the eye. I just don't know what to do to sort this out. I don't know what I need him to say or do or what I should say or do and so I find myself staring into space thinking nothing except how much this all hurts. I even feel sorry for H really as there is nothing he can say. He didn't ask at the time why she wrote the letter and so he cannot answer most of the questions I seem to need answering to make sense of what he wants me to believe. It is so easy to believe what the letter says as it is right there in front of me. I want to believe what he says instead but I look at him and think "you've hurt me so much this last year so this could be true".

I'm sure you are right Jen. I just don't know how to get through it. I really need to hear something from him that means something and its just not coming from him.

Totally off the subject how are you for flooding where you are? My garden is under a foot and a half of water right now. I went to town around 15:30 and there was a little bit of water on the path, I came back 2 hours later and there was this foot deep lake instead of my grass! Yikes! Luckilly there are a couple of step ups before it can reach my door so I'm hoping my kitchen will still be there in the morning!

So IP,

do you have the DB books and have you read them? Do you understand about backing off and not obsessing, snooping, and detaching? Much much easier said than done BUT mandatory for any healing.

No matter what the future holds, you need to heal. If you need to visualize a STOP sign when the "stinking thinking" gets to you, then do it. Give your heart some space and relief for a bit. The constant worry and obsessing is NOT helping you. Do you see that? So if it is Not helping you or your sitch, try something different. Read the divorce busting books and give some of their suggestions a try. It has helped me and my M a lot and no matter what ultimately happens in my M, I know for certaint hat without the DB approach, I'd already be done and divorced, and in much more pain. I honestly do feel pretty good about my life now but would never have thought this possible a year or so ago. Good luck,
j

Hi 25yrs

Yes I do have the DB books and have saved my M with them in that after a 4 month separation where H talked of nothing but D he finally moved back in 6 months ago. The problem now is that 2 weeks ago I found a letter from a W he texted throughout the separation who he worked with who he always claimed they had just talked about each others problems.

I do know I'm not exactly following the DB techniques right now but right now it is about what I believe and think H did/did not do. At this moment in time there is no fear of D from H - more like from me if I cannot sort my head out about this letter.

IP,

got it. Sometimes we LBSers spend so much time wanting them to come back and it is THE goal...but if and when the WAS returns, for many of us there seems to be confusion or our own MLC of sorts. We ask, first, who are THESE people we married who would do such things? Are they changed from who they were, or were they always this way and were we blind/in denial? What do WE want from now on and can this person be the one to give it to me, and to be loved and trusted by me...can we let go of the past at all, and if so, when?

In some ways, their return may not be the "easy" part but it is the simple part. Staying M after a betrayal of whatever sort, hard blows to the heart, THAT ain't simple or easy. It's very complex, as I am learning. Now is time for "Real Work at Marriage - Part II"

good luck. As I don't know the letter's contents I cannot comment. But maybe you could see any ambiguities in your M's favor?? rather than the negative spin, unless there is clarity. Ahhhh, clarity....what's that?
j-

Hi 25 yrs

Yes you are so right it is very very hard to deal with getting things back to "normal" after a betrayal - to me the fact he left and even talked to another W is a betrayal.

I will give you the basics of the letter as I really would appreciate any thoughts as I am struggling so much.

As I said I knew he was texting her and he always swore it was talking about each other's R problems. I always said it was not a good idea as in these sitch's someone usually ends up falling for the other but at the time we were separated and of course what I said didn't matter.

Anyway he still texted her but very occaisionally after moving back in for probably first 3 months and then it got less and less with just basically joke texts from her. (according to him of course I can never really know)

I found a letter in his wallet 2 weeks ago saying he hadn't rung her back and she was a bit miffed, she was sorry she had delivered the letter to our house but needed to tell him all this. Then it was she really valued them and what she thought they had and what she wanted them to have in the future. Then "I just want to know if you want to be with me, I hate being in limbo" "please don't let the last 8 months go to waste we have a good time together and we love each other that must count for something". Then further down it said "we are f';';;@ great together as a couple (no sexual pun intended)" It is signed your, (name) and then it says if you still want me I'm yours. then it says PS this may be innapropriate but I'm still horny for you if you would oblige.

Anyway I will admit there is no reference to actually being in a R other than the bit where it says we love each other.

My H is adamant that he was shocked rigid when he opened it and couldn't understand it as there had never been any mention of these feelings from her before and he says he never ever ever did anything with her or told her he wanted to as he didn't want to. He is adamant she was just someone to talk to and that she must have just been in a wierd place when she wrote it. I keep wavering from believing him to not. I just don't get how someone could write it if it were not true. The only scenario I can think of that would cooberate his story is that she felt annoyed that he didn't really talk to her about her problems anymore once his was sorted out and thought there was more the the R than friendship and maybe hoped I'd see the letter so that our M would be rocky again so he'd talk to her again. I know I shouldn't be letting her craziness affect the happiness we had started to build back up but a letter that I can see is much easier to believe than the words my H says which I have no way of knowing are true.

If he's telling you the truth, what can he say or do, today, to convince you?

If he has been lying, and tells you today that things got physical, will that help you acheive your goals?

If he's been telling the truth, but comes home to you this evening and breaks down in tears and lies to you, confessing to a physical relationship with the W, would you forgive him and feel comforted by his admission?

I'm not trying to be a smarta$$. Really. I'm trying to understand your needs, your bottom line, what it'll take for you to move past this and get yourself back to a better place. You are the one in pain.

When my H came home, and he works 1300 miles away, I snooped and found the xOW's # on the recently dialed list. I flipped out. I went in the bedroom and woke him up, demanding to know why he was calling her. He didn't know what I was talking about. I told him I looked at his phone. He still claimed he didn't know what I was talking about. I showed him. "Right there! First you called her cell, then the apartment!" He still said he didn't call her. I had ambushed him. I had woke him up. He got angry with me for doubting his word, I was angry that he was denying what was in front of me. We had a rough night. Finally he figured it out. He wanted her out of the "phone book" in his phone. To delete the numbers, he had to pull them up.

Oh but that didn't stop me from making matters worse! The next morning I was messing with his phone, and instead of deleting one of the numbers, I accidentally pushed the call button and it rang her cell, from my H's number! OMG. She immediately called back and I hung up on her without answering. I didn't tell him. She thinks he rang her. My fault. I gave her hope. She called from masked numbers the whole weekend. My fault. I considered texting her and apologizing for calling her so that she would know he hadn't tried to contact her. I never sent the text because I refuse to give her existence one more ounce of my concern.

Until we sell this place (anyone wanna buy a house?), we are forced to live 6 states apart. "Snooping" isn't even a possibility. To get what I want, I have to fight the fears and insecurity inside myself and CHOOSE to trust again. Every. Day.

He chose me. He chose us. We almost lost everything, but instead have the chance to create a marriage that we never even gave the effort to-- until we knew what we could lose. That's all that matters to me.

What matters to you?

I have to ponder this. I would deeply bother me for sure. Why is "ow" in "limbo"? Can your h end the limbo by telling her in a way you can verify or witness, that there is no limbo and he is married to you, etc.
Obviously even if your h is telling the truth and this woman misunderstood and then misrepresented their R at Your home....she is not someone he can have a "friendship" with. That would have to be totally over and that's assuming you believe him. How can your h expect to continue any type of R with her if he is essentially calling her nutty or dishonest? This is a bit more than a misunderstanding, but HE can clear it up with you being there or somehow getting reassured. I have to go ponder more but I don't know what your h is saying he wants NOW from your M, and what he was like before.

Her comment about being horny and needing him to oblige--is that a quote? Why on earth would she print that in a letter to your home? Wildly inappropriate for several reasons. Sorry but it ain't good news. So, what is your h willing to do NOW to reassure you that whatever type of R they had is now over?

Can you accept his promises about fidelity from this day forward, if he makes them? Can you let go of your questions about what happened, and if so, what will it take for you to be able to do that?

How long is the M and has he ever done anything like this before? What do you think happened? What do You want? What do you think your H wants?
j-