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Glad to hear that you and you H are trying in some way to work through your issues. Hopefully it is possible that something positive may come from what you thought may have been destructive. I guess the $64,000 question is how do you deal with the avoidance when both parties aren't willing? Has avoidance always been an issue in your M? Avoidance seems to be the reason why so many of us end up like this.

I will be amazed if I can pull this off tomorrow with no R talk but I am going to try. It is going to be a bit of an emotional day since I sign escrow docs at 11:00 and then meet my H for lunch. Maybe not the best planning on my part.

In your opinion, is it okay to talk about him? Is he happier now then he was 4 months ago? Is he doing anything to work on himself (still going to IC)? What are his plans for the future (where is he going to be living)? Do you think that those questions are off limits as well?

I guess I am pretty naive when it comes to this kind of stuff. When I went through my D with my first H, I dealt with things the best I could. It was difficult since I had two babies and I had a lot of resentment toward my 1st H and the OW. I still don't like them. When my current H and met, he had been separated (their 2nd separation) from his 1st wife for almost a year. She had cheated on him but he still wanted to work it out. He claims when they got back together he tried to make it work but it just wasn't the same. Last year, his XW took him back to court to get more child support and he was furious and wished her dead. So, there may be some unresolved issues there. I also think he has some unresolved issues with his parents. Shortly after my H left for college, his mother cheated on his dad. She married the guy. About 20 years later, when her 2nd H died and his father's girl friend died, they got back together. They never remarried but they were together till they died. My H always talks very highly of his dad but hardly mentions his mom. I also wonder whether or not he has dealt with their deaths. Not sure if you really wanted all of that history, but there you have it.

I know what your saying about working on the friendship and that I have nothing to lose but do I really want to be friends with someone who has caused me so much pain? If that is the case, do I want to be married to someone who has cause me so much pain? All of this just makes my head spin.

Hope you are doing well tonight. I am off to my D's water polo games.

<3 Upside

Okay... I've looked at your thread, and what you wrote above, and will share my thoughts...

You were married to your husband for 7 years. Looking back objectively, were they good years? Did your husband do a lot of nice things for you? Did he help out? Was he good with the kids? Did he buy you nice things, give you compliments once in awhile, etc... ????

Now do those 7 years mean nothing?

I understand these last few months or so have been painful and his wanting a separation has been hard. But we marry for "better or worse/ sickness or health" and sometimes health includes mental illness, confusion... etc..

My husband might have put me through hell (many times! Although I haven't always been easy to get a long with either...), but there were a lot of good things too. More times than not he was there when I needed him, he gave me nice things, took care of me, has been a great father and a good friend. I figured I wasn't going to forget the good he has done for me in the past just because he was struggling with things in the present. And is it fair for me to be angry and blame him for leaving? Wouldn't it be worse to force someone to stay? I love this person and loving him I want him to be happy and if that's with or without me I'm going to support him.... Anyhow, can I be his friend? Well, I've learned friends don't always meet our expectations, they don't always do exactly what we wish and sometimes they hurt us (usually not on purpose.. I don't think your husband is trying to hurt you. From everything you describe he's much nicer than most. At least it's only distancing, not outright meanness. My husband was really mean!!!).

Anyhow, onto your lunch. Wow!!!! That went very well. He had a great time with you, even texted you and GOSH!!! He invited you to join him and his friend. I remember that being one of my goals. And I was very pleased when it finally happened.

So, what you MUST do is continue to try and be a non-pursuing friend. What that means is avoiding relationship talk as much as possible, but letting him pour out what he's thinking, feeling, etc... about his life. Even if it's just work and the kids. There are things bothering him and he needs someone to talk to or just to talk and RELAX... let him do that. Relationship talk isn't going to let him relax. You need to let him de-stress when he's with you. Then he will associate good, positive relaxing throughts with BEING WITH YOU and he will DESIRE to be with you!!!! You will be providing what he needs. Not creating stress. I have a feeling he really needs that. The fact he appreciated it and said that to you and wished to spend more time talking to you and invited you to join him tells me he needs what you provided today.

Don't hesitate to invite him places, just don't expect him to come and make those invitations sound really flexible and "non-demanding." For example, "Hey, we're having a bar-b-que on the 4th, if you don't have other plans, you're welcome to stop by." He mentions how everyone wants him to come to their gig and you can laugh and say... "Wow, so popular!!! Well, wherever you decide to go, I hope you have a great time.... But if you get bored or decide to party hop, you can always drop in on us for a few moments.... or maybe some other time.... if you get bored you're always welcome to call...." Then change the subject.

I wouldn't ask him if he's happier or doing anything to improve himself. Since he's not sure what he wants to do with his life, he probably wouldn't say anything to get your hopes up at this time. I think he's trying to avoid giving you any sense of false hope and you need to accept that. Until my husband could commit to the relationship again, he avoided giving me any sense of wanting to get together. Like for example, your husband's comments about your house being "your" house. Of course, he's not going to talk about it as both your house because he's uncertain where he's going at this point. You need to stop expecting more. That stress will only push him away from you. Remember things can change, but you will need to be PATIENT.

Hi ROOT-
Thanks so much for your your time and your thoughts. Though tonight I feel like it is all in vain. I can't seem to deal with the rules. I need answers. I need more than he can give me. I met my friend and my H for drinks. Things were fine. My H said that we were all invited to some other friend's for dinner. When we were leaving the restaurant, my H walked me to my car. I asked if he wanted me to go to our friend's and things just went downhill from there. I suggested he come back to the new house with me and he didn't really give me answer. I did go to our friend's and I again suggested he come back with me and he said not tonight. I asked him to walk out when I was leaving and things went from bad to worse. I will spare you the details. I ended up leaving angry, hurt and frustrated. Tonight I feel like I am done. I know I may feel differently tomorrow, but for now, I feel like I can not be the only one fighting to save my marriage.

Hope you things are going better for you.

<3 Upside

Sounds like you're expecting way too much, and he can't give that now. He might be able to in the future, but you might not have the patience to wait.

And that's okay. We are who we are and sometimes we can't change that.

I know I should NOT have any expectations and I understand that when I am not around him but... I guess I just need to give up and just live my life. I just wish I could understand...but I know I may never understand.

Hope things are better for you. Any changes?

<3 Upside

You need to stop trying so hard to control things. I suspect you are a person who likes to control things and I think life will run much smoother if you just live it, try to enjoy the people you are with when you are with them, take in the positive times and then if things go negative, smile and go take a break...

Well.... my life.... things are always easier on paper than living through them. My dog died recently. It's the first dog I ever owned and both my children and I have been very sad about losing her. My husband never really liked this dog so he hasn't been too affected. He thinks it's kind of silly that I cry over the dog sometimes. Mostly at night when I think about what a great companion she was and how she'd always be there next to my side of the bed when I woke up in the morning. I'd always get down on the floor every morning and hug her, talk to her, play with her... and sometimes brush her teeth! Oh well...

Unfortunately my marriage isn't as good as it could be right now. Things have been swept "under the rug" and there's issues that really need to be talked about, but we've both gone into avoidance again. He's upset about some things and I'm just not sure how to get him to talk. We're very nice to each other and I try to be positive, but he just isn't comfortable talking to me and that's really hard. I know if we could just talk to each other things might be a lot better. And ever since I tried to manipulate him into talking about OW he seems to want very little to do with me. He's friendly and nice, but distant. I just wish I could change that.

Hi ROOT-
I am so sorry about your dog. I have a dog and I know how devastating it would be to lose him. It would be like losing a friend.

What have you tried to get your husband to open up to you? Since this is something that has been on going, have you read anything about communication? I know it is not an easy thing and it can be very uncomfortable when you know that there are things that aren't being said that need to be. You are still in counseling right? Will he open up there? Communication is so important so why do some people try to avoid it?

I had a difficult couple of days. It was our anniversary on Tuesday and my husband's birthday yesterday. I left him a couple of very generic cards and a generic gift at his office. I did not recieve (and I didn't think that I would) any acknowledgement of our anniversary from my husband. Apparently he had gone "home" sick from work on Monday and even ended up at urgent care. I sent him a text yesterday to wish him a happy birthday and he said he hadn't gotten out of bed or had anything to eat since Monday. I just keep thinking that when something like that happens, wouldn't it make you realize that you don't want to be alone? I am so fighting the urge to call him today. I have been moving so there is plenty for me to do to keep busy and distracted. I have to just try not to think about it.

While moving, I keep come across cards that he has given me over the years and they make me want to cry. I just found a Valentine's day card that he signed like this "I am so lucky to have found you and to have you in my life. I love you and I appreciate the time we have together. I want to be with you always. Love H". How did we end up like this?

Hope you had a nice 4th of July.

<3 Upside

Hi ROOT-
I was just wondering how you are doing. Hope all is well.

<3 Upside

but he just isn't comfortable talking to me and that's really hard. I know if we could just talk to each other things might be a lot better. And ever since I tried to manipulate him into talking about OW he seems to want very little to do with me. He's friendly and nice, but distant. I just wish I could change that.
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sweety, do something, and NOW, I forget if he does counceling or not, but it seems he's having issues, and you know they won't go away by hopeing things will work out themselves, (just btdt)
Everytime you mention ow you give her power and are extrating info just to put a puzzle piece in your head, all the while refreshing your Hs memory of her. Want her out of his mind? DONT talk abour her, we women have the capability of rememberting things and not letting go. Please let go. Isee youve'been gone awhile, hope to see you again luv.

Gosh Cat,

Wouldn't it be nice if things could be simpler? I had some strange OW things happen too. Not as frustrating as your sitch (I'd like see yours hit with 100 cherry cream pies!!! With a little Nair snuck in... hee hee!!!), but some women are so amazingly selfish and self-centered and slutty I just can't believe it. Why are people that way? Gosh why even court that kind of drama and ugliness? It just seems so unhealthy. What could possibly be attractive about someone else's husband? Why would anyone CHOOSE to be the rebound relationship to someone in MLC or questioning their life and marriage? I don't get it.