I'm not *really* wishing for it - just that it would make things a lot more clear-cut, at least in my mind, ya know?
No. It doesn't make it more clear cut. Actually... I'm wondering if you are waiting for her to let you off the hook... so you don't have to take actions or make decisions you consider to be uncomfortable.
I would also add that if you keep 'expecting' her to cheat again, you're never going to truly trust her again, therefore, your M will never be completely intact. Vicious cycle there, I think.
I kind of go over in my mind what I would say/do if H all of a sudden told me he had cheated AGAIN, however, I nip those thoughts in the bud immediately as I am EXPECTING him to stay faithful from now on. If I kept thinking that maybe he was going to cheat again, I would never be able to move forward from what already happened and that's the past now and I CHOSE to stay w/ him, so I need to make sure that I am doing/thinking what I need to in order to get the trust back, not just 'forgive.' My C told me forgiving is actually an action which you may need to decide to do every day for awhile. There may be days when you get angry/resentful/whatever again, but you need to tell yourself that you WANT to and have chosen to forgive your W, therefore today you will forgive and trust again. After awhile I would think it would become habit.
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
Yes it does. Because another EA would be a definite boundary shattering deal-breaker, and my way of dealing with that, should it happen, would be extremely clear cut.
Now, about the 'no sex' thing. There was a discussion on a thread the other day about boundaries Vs. preferences. That got me thinking. Is me wanting frequent (some? heh.) sex a 'boundary' or a 'preference'? Because if it's a boundary, and therefore a marriage deal-breaker, then it's a case of me choosing a decent sex life over - for example - choosing for my kids to have the opportunity to grow up in an intact, loving family (which, BTW, is very important to me) that has no serious problems.
It's a super difficult choice to make. Therefore, to me at least, it's not quite as clear cut.
As for waiting for her to let me off the hook. Yep, that's perceptive of you, cos I do VERY occasionally slip and have days like that, and maybe today is one of them. But right now, in the grand scheme of things, I'm choosing to fight for this. I'm still deciding how much of a deal-breaker this is, and therefore whether or not to drop a bomb on my wife (for want of a better term), because I'm making plenty of changes in other areas first, including communication between us, and I'm seeing noticable results in terms of her language and her affection towards me. I'm more than ready to do it, though, if I feel like I NEED to.
Maybe the 'blip' last year that she profusely apologised for is a bigger blip in her mind than I realise, and that she needs the time to get over her guilt, and to see and believe that the changes I'm making are permanent. Because, yes, I do understand - and freely admit - that I also played a part in allowing us to get to the state we were in 12 months ago.
So, maybe it's a waiting game? If so, I feel like I'm racking up the points right now...
With that in mind, I'm also certainly not 'expecting' another EA to happen. My wife isn't that stupid or that nasty. I am working on the trust thing 110% of the time, though, and I know and appreciate that it's ALL inside me now - and something for ME, and ME only, to deal with.
I just guess that if our SL was back to 'normal', then I'd be able to rebuild trust a lot quicker. Or does it work the other way round? Arrrgh! Heh.
Yes, it makes sense. I'm reading "After the Affair" and I think (hope b/c I'm just getting into it) it's going to help me a lot. Maybe she is having issues w/ your SL because of the A, who knows. Is there a reason you aren't talking to her about it?
It kind of sounds like you want to leave, but are staying just for the childrens' sake?
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
Maybe she is having issues w/ your SL because of the A, who knows.
Well, someone close has already suggested that guilt (on her part) is playing a large part in this. You're right, though, who knows??
Originally Posted By: Cadesmom34
Is there a reason you aren't talking to her about it?
Talking about the lack of a SL? We are talking, and she knows that it's making me unhappy - but I don't quite think she's buying HOW MUCH it's making me unhappy. That's the part I'll probably be getting to next, I guess. She's agreed to read the SSM book which is a good start.
Originally Posted By: Cadesmom34
It kind of sounds like you want to leave, but are staying just for the childrens' sake?
Most days I don't. Some days, yes, I do - although those days are becoming less frequent as she warms up. And even on the days I do, when she comes home after work, puts her arms around me and gives me a kiss (all her own work, KWIM), my heart melts all over again and I'm 110% for staying this out.
Yes, I'm a sucker for a kiss from a beautiful woman.
Now, about the 'no sex' thing. There was a discussion on a thread the other day about boundaries Vs. preferences. That got me thinking. Is me wanting frequent (some? heh.) sex a 'boundary' or a 'preference'? Because if it's a boundary, and therefore a marriage deal-breaker, then it's a case of me choosing a decent sex life over - for example - choosing for my kids to have the opportunity to grow up in an intact, loving family (which, BTW, is very important to me) that has no serious problems.
You put the problem in very simple terms... and it is what most people face. Although there are people on here in Rs that don't have the kids to worry about, and they are still stuck.
It is a HARD choice, make no mistake. But I cannot see a M going on in a SSM indefinitely as an 'intact loving family.' Nor do I see it as healthy for the kids (IMO). There IS a serious problem going on between the spouses, and if the SSM goes on too long, there IS fall out, whether you can see it/feel it or not.
You may not be at all out war with one another, but there is constant tension present, no one smiles or laughs, and there is just a general feeling of oppression within the house. I think parents tend to snap at each other or at the kids more frequently, and while no one may be suicidal depressed... no one is really happy, either. It's just me, but I don't think that is healthy or good for the kids.
I really am glad you want to make your M better, not just for you, but for your W and your kids. There are good days and bad. Are you in MC? And do you have a timeframe in mind... and what improvement looks like? Do you have a solid idea of what your MINIMUM level of acceptance is, and will you know it when you see it?
I've just read Crazy Eddie on another thread talking about knowing that he'll be fine if his wife ever did leave.
So, after thinking about what I said up there for a few minutes, I don't think it's a case of me actually 'wanting to leave' - I think it's more to do with me 'knowing that I'll be absolutely fine if I (or my W) did leave'.
A quick, throwaway, and pretty shallow example off the top of my head: I'm quite a friendly/talkative guy at heart, although what happened last year knocked me down a little. I'm getting past that now, and I'm starting to feel a LOT more like *me* again. So... I do all the kids' school runs and get talking to a lot of Mums every day. Several of whom are single. And kinda hot.
Yes, yes, dangerous territory, I know, but I's never let anything happen while I Was married. Trust me. Erm, anyhoo...
Another example is that I'm getting in the water for a surf more often now than at any time in the last 3 years. Yes, I can do that while I'm married, but I could still do it just as much - if not more - if I wasn't.
But essentially, what it all boils down to is that I *know* my life would be OK IF we did eventually split. Or, in other words, I'm realising that it's not my wife who's responsible for my happiness - it's me. Or in other words, I'm getting myself a pretty damned good PMA. And I think that knowing all of this occasionally helps me to take the focus, the headspace, and the pressure off of trying to 'save' us ALL of the time.
But I cannot see a M going on in a SSM indefinitely as an 'intact loving family.' Nor do I see it as healthy for the kids (IMO). There IS a serious problem going on between the spouses, and if the SSM goes on too long, there IS fall out, whether you can see it/feel it or not.
Well, that depends on whether it's a boundary or a preference. If it's a boundary that's perpetually being crossed then there will be fallout. If it's a preference that you are able to learn to live with (like, for example, choosing to give up, say, a particular hobbby because it's detrimental to the M) then it's a choice you make. And by making that choice, it's your responsibility to prevent the feelings that lead to fallout.
Make sense? Like I say, I'm at the point where I'm deciding what is more important to me. Can I live without sex indefinitely? Can I find something to replace it? Can I get by with the non-sexual affection my W can give me? I'm still alive after 2 years of it, so it's obviously not going to kill me. However, I've spent much of that two years craving for some kind of rudey-nudey physical contact, so there's definitely *something* missing. Is family more important than sex? What will the kids think of me 10 years down the line if I split their family up? Will I lose them, too?
See, my head is still so full of stinky stuff that I'm not going to make any big choices until I reach a decision that I can stand behind.
Originally Posted By: Corri
I really am glad you want to make your M better, not just for you, but for your W and your kids. There are good days and bad. Are you in MC? And do you have a timeframe in mind... and what improvement looks like? Do you have a solid idea of what your MINIMUM level of acceptance is, and will you know it when you see it?
No, not in MC. My W doesn't particularly believe in it, and me pushing won't help right now. I did have a course of IC late last year and got about as much out of it as I could.
A timeframe? You mean like if things don't improve by [this date], then I'm out of here, kind of thing? Ummm... nothing firm, but yes, I do have something in mind.
A minimum level? It's very difficult to say when it's flatlined at zero for two years - I've forgotten what my minimum level was!! Heh. Just before our S6 began commandeering that middle spot in our bed at about 6 months old, we were twice a day most days. And I liked that - although I guess it's probably unreasonable/not practical to some extent now. So, right now, I'd be happy with S once a month. But if we ever reached that level, would I then want it once a week? And then every other day? And then once a day? Would I ever be happy? Etc, etc, etc.
You got me. I *really* don't know the answer to that one.
First thing's first, you need to get S6 out of the M bed. Seriously.
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
But essentially, what it all boils down to is that I *know* my life would be OK IF we did eventually split. Or, in other words, I'm realising that it's not my wife who's responsible for my happiness - it's me. Or in other words, I'm getting myself a pretty damned good PMA. And I think that knowing all of this occasionally helps me to take the focus, the headspace, and the pressure off of trying to 'save' us ALL of the time.
I think it's a reasonably healthy state of mind.
I hope so, because I'm rather enjoying it and I'm not giving it up anytime soon.
But seriously, I'd say you're on the right track.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
