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Christ, BF, why don't you just call me Ma'am and tell me not to get my girdle in an uproar
Im good, but Im not Christ. simmer down there Ma'am. youll get your panties in a twist.

Just makes me sad to see such a young whipper snapper like yourself letting llfe control your 'flow.'


are you saying nondualism is not attractive on a man? You prefer something with a little more 'MANIFEST DESTINY' in his stride ?

I agree with you completely, BF. Your logic is impeccable. I have applied the same kind of logic to my situation and come up with similar conclusions.

a) My X is an intelligent man who knows me better than anyone since he was married to me for almost 2 decades.

b) My X believes that "no man can handle me" therefore I am bad wife material.

c) If I assign certain experienced and intelligent men on this BB the role you assigned GEL in your little proof, I would add the additional evidence that the reason "no man can handle me" is that I will always be trying to get a man to "top my top" and therefore make the fact that "no man can handle me" a foregone conclusion.

d) The fact that I was indeed a bad wife (of the deplete all manly energy variety) was made obvious by the fact that I left my X such a waste case at the end of our relationship that he had to check himself into a mental health facility.


Therefore, like you, in order to do no further harm to members of the opposite sex, in the future I must wander the sexual landscape only making superficial connections of the monkey-to-monkey variety. However, I'm thinking that instead of the 2 months for every year of marriage recovery rule, I'll go with the one new notch on my lipstick case for each year of SSM recovery rule.

P.S. D*mn you for dragging me out of lurker mode and thereby making me break even the minor commitment to myself to stay away from this addictive BB until I get my act together.

Blackfoot, Mojo,

I’m surprised to see such black and white, tunnel vision, victim-like thinking out of the both of you. The correct answer to both of you is this:

Your ex was dysfunctional going into the M, as you were. S/he did not have the knowledge then that s/he does now, or the more complete knowledge that each of you have. Both of you have been learning, evolving, growing. I don’t know how much of that is true for your ex. But that does not mean your ex cannot get to the same level of growth that you are at now.

None of this has anything to do with whether you are a good spouse or not. In fact, just try to define “good spouse.” The “correct” answer will depend on who you ask. As you grow and learn, it can be easily argued that you may become a worse spouse to someone, because you learn to better differentiate, hold to boundaries, etc. Do those things make you a better spouse? Maybe. Maybe not. It depends on the chemistry with the other person.

So what is your point in beating yourselves up, and also justifying that your ex was not capable enough or intuitive enough or intelligent enough. At one time your ex was more than sufficient for you in all those categories. But you grew. S/he did not. That doesn’t mean s/he can’t grow now or in the future.

So the question becomes why were you able to grow and s/he could not? Because we each have different FOOs and different levels of damage around which we have each built different strengths of defenses. I think your ex has had an even more damaged FOO that you think, and that damage has limited his/her ability to adapt to a growing relationship. There is more involved in taking down those stronger defense systems that your ex has had to build over the years. That means there will be a difference in the pace of growth between you and your ex, and the rate in which you and s/he can learn more functional relationship patterns. It does NOT mean your ex is less intelligent, intuitive or capable. That is black and white, victim-think.

Until you truly understand this, you cannot gain true empathy and compassion, you will be stuck in resentment (which is seething out of the both of you) and your ultimate growth and happiness will be elusive.

Only if you both agreed she could have an EA, and later see someone else after you seperated. Otherwise, no.

As for the rest - Blackfoot, we see the world through our own lenses, no matter how intelligent or intuitive we are. We can only extrapolate from our own experience to a degree, especially when it comes to relationships. I'm sure you made mistakes in your marriage. So did she. That doesn't mean you didn't learn plenty from the carnage, and it also doesn't mean you can't be a good husband to someone. Much of the dynamics of a relationship comes from the particular interaction of the two people in it. She, actually, has no real way of predicting what kind of a husband you'd now be to someone else.

A decade is a long time, yes. But if you're only about my age now, you must have both been very young. That matters. Since you didn't have children, I think you still have your 'perfect throw' ahead of you, for all that you think you already dropped it.

The world is grey. Light and shadows, often at the same time. The best you can do is chose which shade is yours, and retain compassion for others, and especially for yourself.

And of course you realize that I must take offense at your classifying my intelligence and intuition as "unknown". Don't they just shimmer through my posts? Sheesh.

Cobra,

I meant my post to BF to be a bit tongue in cheek, though perhaps I'm a bit too jaded to pull that off. If I'm projecting resentment it's really just a thin mask over a thicker layer of guilt over a deep layer of confusion. I was trying to communicate that I think BF will make a good husband some day as soon as he encounters the sort of strong-willed, yet vulnerable, vixen such as is found in romance novels - lol

My confusion is due to the fact that I KNOW that my cow is to blame for my half of the dysfunction in my relationship for which I feel guilty but I can't figure out how to get rid of her. NOP has said things to me like "You need a hero, not a boy" but I behave in a manner that defeats this and I don't know why. My problem is that you could present me with the most macho, hard*zz guy on the planet and I (or really the cow part of me)would instantly, spontaneously, subconsciously start scanning him for boyish vulnerability. Although, I guess I have made some progress because at least I catch myself doing it now. Also, that's why I've been advising the HDW on the BB to be more b*tchy. What I really mean is that they should be more selfish and therefore less self-protecting. However, like I said, I'm still confused myself but I'm learning some stuff by observing my interactions with the men I've been dating with some of the self-awareness I've gained on this BB.

Hi MOJO

You cant apply my logic to you. Sorry. Its trying to apply the wrong theorem. Here is why.

Your spouse didnt leave you. He didnt suggest it. He just went along with it.

Since you are the intelligent intuitive female, and you left, I would say your H is in my not worthy camp. Not you. He didnt say you were a bad wife. He just said you were selfish, (true) and no man can handle you. Thats highly debateable. x on the other hand never impinged on my ability to handle women, or even her desire to be handled by me, she just said I was a crappy H, who she couldnt see a stable secure future with. Im sure you can relate to that feeling.

d) The fact that I was indeed a bad wife (of the deplete all manly energy variety) was made obvious by the fact that I left my X such a waste case at the end of our relationship that he had to check himself into a mental health facility.
since you know my opinion of the mans responsibilities, not to mention certain other truths you know about your sitch, your d) logic is only getting an :eyeroll:

I would add the additional evidence that the reason "no man can handle me" is that I will always be trying to get a man to "top my top" and therefore make the fact that "no man can handle me" a foregone conclusion.

I dont suggest you stop doing that at your place in the game right now, but long term its going to be as self defeating to you as it would for me to continuing my 'do nothing'. And I thank you for helping me see that, again. Because its hard to hold on to that feeling that Im only disserving myself. Being able to post to Choco was good for me.
Trust me I know how you feel. I dont want to let go of my entitlements either. You dont mind getting all gussied up now, but you want to be accepted for your pilgrim soul. (I always thought of pilgrims as being pretty anti-sex...) I understand a woman wants her man to be all he can be, but 'toping your top' is not giving the acceptance you want.

I'll go with the one new notch on my lipstick case for each year of SSM recovery rule.
20 notches doesnt take nearly as long so... if that works for you, best of luck. Just take matters into your own hands and bring your own jacket. dont rely on anyone else to ward off a chill.

D*mn you for dragging me out of lurker mode and thereby making me break even the minor commitment to myself to stay away from this addictive BB until I get my act together.

**pause to strut and flex in the mirror ** Gosh, you give me so much power.It would almost make me if it werent for the meglamanical complex your forcing me to have. If my head gets any bigger its going to attract orbiting objects. not. Nice try.
I wanted some more good stories and original analogies. I needed a laugh. So I had to make you. Im selfish like that.

in the future I must wander the sexual landscape only making superficial connections of the monkey-to-monkey variety. I believe those are called Fellow Bonobo's
If thats what you want, but you are not your sister. Choose what you want. There are no musts. be Just Jenny.
Now off with you and be the reason some other literary Match monkey realizies his virtual lions roar is actually a IRL kitty cat meow.

I think there are different issues at play when it comes to my willingness to get "gussied up" (a more accurate description would be what my sister's boyfriend said to me the other day which was "You're looking very MILF lately")It wasn't even apparent to me how high-maintenance my X was (or how high-maintenance I allowed him to be) until he was gone. I am much better able to care for MYSELF now in many ways including making more effort with my appearance and overall physical health. For instance, I can transfer the mental energy and physical effort I previously used taking care of all the tasks on the cranky little notes my X would leave in the kitchen in the morning to considering which fake tan cream would work best for me and taking the dog for a power walk. Also, you have to remember that I really didn't get consistently positive reinforcement for efforts I made in that regard from my X. For instance, "you should lose weight" comments followed shortly by "your breasts are smaller now" once the weight was lost. Trust me when I say that my ability to get consistently "gussied up" in a relationship is almost certainly directly related to the guy's ability to consistently make comments along the lines of "That new black dress makes you look totally MILF!" and act in accordance with his comments.

Pilgrims are sexy because a pilgrim is a wanderer boldly seeking a new world or a mecca. If a man loved me for my pilgrim soul, he would love me for the way my mind worked in forming and seeking my desires. Who wouldn't want that? However, I don't really see this as something that needs to be proved in the absence of being attracted to my physical presence. The two would almost certainly build on each other. My X didn't even like, let alone love, my pilgrim soul so it didn't matter a bit whether I gussied up my exterior.

I guess I see the "topping my top" issue as being sort of similar. If a relationship or interaction is positive and supportive then "topping my top" would simply mean adding another block to a secure structure. At least when you're "topping" someone's "top" you are tending towards upwards movement and growth, right? Really there's no reason why it can't be a collaboration rather than a competition.



I don't know if you meant that as a warning to carry condoms or to watch out for my bunny. You probably wouldn't even believe how bunny these Matchmen try to play me but I've got it under control. Although, I did have a sort of fit of free floating anxiety the other evening and I realized it was due to being bounced on the knee of too many strangers, like a baby at a family reunion potluck. This one guy stood me up and then e-mailed me some lame excuse about getting drunk at a hockey game and not being able to get a cab back to his car in order to meet me and I e-mailed him back "To be completely honest, I was kind of relieved when you didn't show up because I am already dating too many men and I'm starting to get freaked out and confused."



LOL - Part of the reason I'm trying not to post so much lately is that if I share too many of my dating stories I'm afraid I'm going to become a sickening exhibitionist like those guys on AFF who post those headless penis in profile shots. (So unsexy because even women like me who are object oriented need some context. Also, so unnatural. I mean, when in the course of a real sexual encounter would a guy stand sideways to show off his erection? Although it would be quite hilarious.)

Let me get this straight.

Your wife's judgement is so stellar that she chose to have an affair and flip flop back and forth culminating in divorcing you on your birthday and yet HERS is the opinion that you hold onto as gospel truth?

Sheesh. What are you gonna do next, try to sell me some beachfront property in that lovely desert that you call home?

Stop holding on to her ridiculous words (which is called Justifying Her Infidelity) and live your life. If you are truly letting thoughts like that hold you captive then you need to break away from your irrational fears and kick her ghost to the curb for the very last time.

However, if all this is just a justification for why you need to only have monkey encounters, don't bother. Do what you feel like when you feel like it, just make sure that you are operating in honesty and not hiding behind your X's go-for-the-jugular zingers. The fact that you are even dwelling on her comment just tells me how ready you are for a relationship, you just need wise women like me and Jenny to come along and point it out to you.

And dang you for drawing me out, like mojo! I think of you often and pray for you frequently.

Take care!

Preach it, sister.

This convoluted she-must-be-smart-or-otherwise what-does-it-say about-me-to-have-married-her thing bf has going on is weird.

It's not exactly news that even highly intelligent people can make bad judgments, have blind spots, their own prejudices, etc.

This is especially true for someone retroactively trying to justify something they feel guilty about.

Both BF and Mojo know better. Or at least Mojo does. I think.

Cut it out BF.
As you've said over and over, you can't help who you are attracted to. Stop trying to change something you can't and/or accept it for what it is.
You would make excellent H material.
You're not a beer to slam.
Believe it.
LFL